I think Löw should play Hummels instead of Mertesacker. In the last years neither of them has played consistently well in the NT, but Hummels club form has been much better and he has more upside. Moreover, Mertesacker is just coming from a lengthy injury which should preclude him from being in good form. However, while I can understand, to some degree, the attempts to relativize Hummels' significantly weaker NT performances -- it's only natural to look for a situational reason for the discrepancy between his club and NT performances -- Hummels himself has to shoulder some responsibility. He certainly had enough chances to force his way into the team, and it's not true that all his mediocre/weak performances in the NT were a result of being forced to play with B-teams or experimental sides. When Badstuber is indeed Löw's favourite, it's not because Löw likes his haircut or is good friends with Hoeness or whatever. It's because Badstuber has been the best German CB in the NT in the last two years, consistently playing well there. He also seems to represent best what Löw looks for in his CBs. His build up play in particular is probably among the best in Europe and he doesn't really have any massive weakness. Badstuber also profits from Bayern reaching two CL finals in the last three years. Anyway, if Hummels doesn't manage to do what Löw requires of him -- which includes not playing very speculative long balls or giving away fouls near the goal area -- then one may well criticize Löw's requirements for his CBs and/or his tactical gameplan, but dropping him for a player who does what Löw wants wouldn't actually be unfair to anybody who is unable or unwilling to adapt. It's Löw's job to decide how to play to maximize the chances to succeed after all. I'm sure he would prefer to be fired for his own mistakes and not because his players simply don't do what he asks them to do. Of course, this holds only true when all else is near equal. In the case of Mertesacker that's not the case though. Mertesacker has played (much) worse than Hummels in the BL/PL in the last couple years. Hummels giving away an unnecessary freekick or playing a long ball here or there shouldn't be worse than what Mertesacker has been playing for some time. This includes Mertesacker not playing well in either 2008 or 2010, and also his more recent performances in the NT and the CL/EL, which were not actually better than Hummels' sometimes less than stellar performances. Not to mention Mertesacker's long injury layoff. So unless Mertesacker is playing amazingly well in training Löw would be well advised to start with Hummels next to Badstuber. It just makes the most sense to start with the two best German CBs who are both coming from good individual seasons, and who have already played together successfully.
Yes thats how it will be ... not just with Posdolski , but also with Merte, Bads, Boateng, Muller , Klose or Gomez, Khedira , Kroos..... who ever plays bad will be subbed out and who ever plays well after being subbed in will get to start...... My only concern is that we play Portugal and Holland the first two matches and every one needs to perform well from the 1 st minute, if they dont we stand a chance of exiting after the first round....
IMO Badstuber wasnt spared the experimentation because he is a Bayern player, he simply got lucky and worked hard. After the world cup Friedrich got back injury that he simply didnt recover from. Badstuber got the chance to start and performed and made the spot his. Hummels got a similar opportunity when Mertesacker got injured and at least in Löw's mind he didnt take it as well as Badstuber did.
That's exactly where the BL and CL experinence crap falls apart. Podolski has played on suck teams and has not seen UEFA games except on TV. So if "Jogi the Bogey" puts so much emphasis on such "experience" how does that explain Poldi as a starter? Let's face it, Löw is afraid to let go of certain players like some superstitious school boy can't take a test without his good luck pencil.
Hmmmm, Badstuber did not play in the CL final so he hardly needed a break. Why "experiment" like he did against Switzerland and not start Badstuber? What ever the reason it does look highly suspicious.
Badstuber may not have played the CL final but this doesn't mean he was mentally unaffected by it. Leaving the Bayern players out didn't seem at all suspicious to me. Löw simply wanted to give the non-Bayern players another chance to prove their fitness and/or form, while the Bayern players physically and mentally recovered.
Löw's point was about experience at the highest level to be prepared against the top teams which Germany will have to face to win the Euro. Podolski may not have had much experience in the CL but he does have lots of experience against top teams with Germany. At this level he is certainly more proven than his challengers Schürrle, Götze or Reus.
We have this debate a lot in NZ with Rugby as we produce so much new talent year on year. Typically we have a strong bias towards experience in the squad because it matters so much in big game moments. Its always very difficult to know when the 'kid' should take over from the old pro. One way that it is addressed is that we maintain a very wide talent pool for the national team of up to 50 players, in order to get people involved earlier. However that is easier in rugby where we have more serious internationals each year.
Bads did play the whole game against Holland a for the Robben non-sense, so it doesn't look that suspicious to most, just 1860 fans.
So if they lose to Portugal is he going to give the Bayern players a break then too so they can mentally recover?Shouldnt all their "experience" in the CL and for the NT have forged some sort of mental toughness that the other players obviously lack due to their lack of experience? Or are they that sensitive and fragile, even having not played, that they need an extra few days to recover mentally? Please....you can't have the argument both ways. Either the Bayern players are experienced enough and tough enough to deal with the demands of CL and NT play or,they are not. Extra time? Give me a break.
Exactly my point. Why does he need a mental break? Hummels did not play in the CL final either...bet he would have liked a break too...but he did what was asked of him.
Badstuber (and other Bayern players) didn't even train with the team before the Switzerland match (I think they weren't in Basel at all).
this thread is fascinating. if anything, it shows how many dumbasses hate bayern and their players just because simply they are top players in europe. lets have a discussion of replacing Lahm as well. he sucked anyways and lost a pk.
If the Bayern players aren't over the final and it affects them vs Portugal, they will rightfully be benched like everyone else in the next game. They simply were given a few days more to rest after the loss, and it makes sense both mentally and physically since they were still playing while the rest of the Germans were being rested and watching on TV.
The Bayern players can be mentally tougher than others irregardless of whether a few days off did them some good. Not to forget that many of them played against the Netherlands just a few days before the Switzerland match, which in turn was just a few days after the CL final. I've to ask when Löw should have given the non-Bayern players a chance to show what they can do in the preparation for the Euros if not after most of the Bayern players played two matches in a short time, while the others merely trained? In fact I wouldn't have been surprised to see some complaints that Löw doesn't give enough chances to non-Bayern players if he would have played with the Bayern players against Switzerland.
Hmm...let´s say 43 goals in 97 national game apperances quite count as international experience...i think no one in this topic says that the Dortmund Players (I include Reus in that one) are shyte, but there is a certain point where everybody has to agree that they lack international experience so far. Personally, I´d start Hummels next to Bads and see how it goes. Quality-wise, Hummels is far better then Bads for me, but Holger had a really god season and was always good for a solid national team game. Something Hummels has to prove and probably will. I also would like to see an Try with a Hummels/Boateng paring, but not until after the EC I could see this work out quite well. Due to our depth in the roster, I guess nobody besides Neuer/Lahm/Schweini has a rocket solid standing and can be subbed anytime....which I think, is def. a good thing. I could see Özil beeing really tired and giving up some playing time for Götze or Reus, which both have to shine.
Isnt this argument getting more comical by the minute? 1. Badstuber must be to blame for Bayern losing to Chelsea 2. Why couldnt Loew select badstuber to play vs Swiss when ALL Bayern players including those suspended for the final were exempted from NT training and didnt report for a while? It was predetermined before the CL final whether Bayern wins or loses when they would join the NT but lets just grab for straws and question why they were
I personally think Hummels is the most talented German CB better than Merte, Boateng, Howedes or Bads Where Bads edges them is that Bads does the simple things better, He makes clearance without elaborating, he would simple clear a ball into touch rather than try something audacious. You would watch 5 games and not see him make any gut bursting run or tackles because he has simply done the easier things seconds earlier, I watched him again vs Madrid players who are one of the best e.g benz, Ronaldo Ozil and he made sure he wasnt caught out of position by any of them. e.g the tackle he made on Benz in ET that ruled him out of the final, If he missed on that tackle Madrid might have had a run at our defence which would show Badstuber horribly out of position . Hummels on the other hand due to his talent believes he can do anything and can recover. Thats a fault with all gifted people who are sure of their talents(E.g a keeper who believes he is agile enough to dive and catch any ball vs one who just positions himself and doesnt have to dive). These plays if they come through makes you look like a genius and applauded but if they fail they make you look verry stupid. Same thing happens to Boateng in Bayern who has been more culpable for some gaffes and goals conceded because he doesnt do the simple things and heed to safety first Thats where Loew has a problem with Hummels and he mentioned it specifically. I want Hummels Bads to start because he is better equipped to handle our opponents who would challenge you one on one also Merter has been out all season and barely fit
I would have liked to see the Badstuber-Hummels partnership in the last 2 games tbh, but I think since he know what he was getting with Badstuber, he wanted to give Mertesacker some very needed match time. I just hope its to be fit in case Hummels doesnt do well. Hopefully we will see this in the tournament because i truly believe that (at least on paper) this is a very solid defensive unit Boateng----Hummels-----Badstuber-------Lahm ------------Khedira.........Schweinsteiger---------
Well, Goal.com named Mats as one of the best looking players to make this year's Euros. No other German made the list. So I'm hoping this will make up for potentially getting benched for Merte. Yay!! See how fair the world is! Football taketh away and then giveth back.
Lord, you don't read, do you? Who said Badstuber is to blame for losing to Chelsea? Please quote the post or STFU. I think the arguement is that he should not have needed a "day off" since he did not play in the CL and -- as you and other argue -- he has sooooo much experience in the CL and the NT that he should be man enough to pick himself up and play a meaningless friendly. THAT was the argument against Badstuber over Hummels. Get real. Lastly, if you and Lahmfan fvcking read anything, almost everyone here including ME have said many of the Bayern players *DO* deserve to start. Did you miss my post saying Mueller > Poldi? Of course you did. Did you miss my post saying Kroos/Piggy over Khedira/[insert name here]? Of course you did. You missed when I said the back line should be Lahm - Hummels - Badstuber/Boateng - Schmelzer? Clearly you did because I advocated two Bayern players there. I also was the one defending Gomez when most of the Bayern fans were irrationally throwing him under the bus. You posts would hold a lot more weight if you actaully read and retained what people said and not try some sort of revisionist history bullshit or tap dance around direct questions. I know you are hurting from a lack of trophies and success, but don't get all pissy just because you now know what the rest of the BL feels like when you guys win. Just man-up, say who the better team was and give it a better try next year. That's what sportsmen do. I'd like to have a civil conversation with you and Lahmfan but it is really impossible when you guys don't read.
And they also named 3 BVB players to their "in form" list. Given Bayern has the most players of any team in the EM, that's pretty impressive.
I could go with that too. Schmelzer is intersting and would like to see him get a shot, so I could go with Lahm right and him left, but this works too. Boateng just looked soooo "wooden" in his positioning against Israel on the right. Hopefully that is just because it was a friendly. If he does play RB against Portugal he will have his work cut out for him.
lol why is it even a big deal that Bayern players were given some rest in the first friendly? They played the second friendly, rather than the first. They got some rest due to playing in the CL final while the rest of the Germans watched their matches in television. Some players got a bit more rest since they were emotionally/physically drained than others, I don't see the issue here..