Kanrocksas Music Festival - August 5th and 6th - Kansas Speedway

Discussion in 'Sporting KC NSR' started by Felixx219, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. vividox Moderator

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    Adequate? You're being very generous today, I see. Saying Jack White is a good guitarist is kind of like saying Keystone Light is a good beer.
          
  2. Formulaic Member

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    Not that I have any personal affinity for him at all, but he has been ranked in the top 100 guitarists of all time by rolling stone (and a pretty large voting panel). Considering the millions and millions of people who have played or do play guitar, and the billions and billions of people who have walked the earth, being in (or anywhere close to) the top 100 would most certainly constitute "good" in my book.

    P.S. I drink Keystone Light!
  3. vividox Moderator

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    Rolling Stone is the tabloid of the music community. It is probably the worst authority on the planet for who is good and who isn't. Note that Rolling Stones also ranks guitars like Johnny Ramone, Kurt Cobain, and Vernon Reid over guys like Alex Lifeson, John Petrucci, and Paul Simon. It's a complete joke.
  4. Formulaic Member

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    I would imagine I am a worse authority than they are. I doubt I could even name 100 guitarists. And you missed my point. Just because he's not as good as those other people you listed (in your opinion at least) doesn't mean he's not a good guitarist. And again, I'm not necessarily trying to defend the guy (in fact, I never much cared for the white stripes). I mean, what would your cut off for "good" be then, or "sub-adequate" as you seem to think he is?
  5. vividox Moderator

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    I think you missed my point. Jack White isn't good at guitar. Not at all. Not even a little bit. He got put on Rolling Stone's top 100 because every idiot who doesn't know a thing about music loves the White Stripes because it's what their friends listen to and that makes Jack White a good guitarist in their very ill-informed opinion. That's it.

    Back to my beer analogy, if you surveyed all of United States what the best beer is, your top three are going to be Miller Lite, Coors Light, Bud Light, in that order. That mean's their "good" beer right? Let me give you a hint: it does not.

    Let me offer you some examples of guitarists who actually know how to play:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4"]Andy McKee - Guitar - Drifting - www.candyrat.com - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZH2-rTp8Ug"]Amedício jr com Pipoquinha Bass - Música Rei Arthur - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEdl_a2vlXk"]Guthrie Govan - Wonderful Slippery Thing at Lick Library - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiYlBO1v1g"]John Petrucci - Voices Solo (live) - YouTube[/ame]

    On any subjective criteria you want to put on it, Jack White is in the WORST 100 professional guitarists of our generation WAY before he's even close to hitting that top 100 list.
  6. vividox Moderator

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    Sorry for the rant. I know I'm a pretentious music snob. I'll be leaving now.
  7. Formulaic Member

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    Well, writing catchy and commercially successful guitar riffs is a subjective criteria that he has apparently been pretty good at. Being a guitarist/musician is more than just technical ability alone.

    Anyway, i have had my say, we are obviously not getting anywhere with this.

    As for vids you posted, I didn't personally much care for the Petrucci one. Not my style. The other 3 are pretty solid, and I like that you included Andy McKee as he is a local-ish guy and someone I have actually heard of.
  8. Formulaic Member

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    Eh, if it weren't for spirited discussion on occasion, forums would be pretty bland.
  9. Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Then why have people like Jimmy Page and Alex Lifeson said those words? I think those guys are far from ill-informed. Jack White is highly revered among his peers and is so for a reason. He has jammed with a lot of legendary guitarist and held is own. Have you ever listened to any of his jam sessions? Unfortunately, there use to be a bunch of Youtube I use to listen too but they have been removed.

    What exactly are you basing this on? The White Stripes? While I enjoy their music, it was very simplistic and is definitely not a taste of how talented Jack White is. Have you listened to the Raconteurs or the Dead Weather? He plays drums on the majority of DW songs but plays guitar on a few tracks. But, if you can find some of his jam sessions, it may change your opinion of him.

    I completely agree on Rolling Stone. They have some good articles but paying attention to those list is like using MTV to discover new music.

    Have you ever listened to Tommy Emmanuel? If you are into guitar, I definitely recommend him. I have seen him live twice and would jump at a chance to see him again. I have a friend who has played guitar for 20 years and his jaw dropped when I took him to see him at a festival I was at. He is probably the best I have seen. He was even better than Bellamy and Omar Rodríguez-López who both had me stunned when I saw them.
  10. Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    You're definitely right about that. I have had the pleasure of meeting some fantastic musicians through my father-in-law who has been playing and touring for 40 years. As he said, he has met some amazing musicians but they couldnt come up with their own material to save their life. They can only play others songs and maybe add their own flavor to those songs but even creating the tiniest bit of music is more than a challenge for them.
  11. vividox Moderator

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    Meh, I responded last night but I was drunk, so I'm going to take another go at it:

    Well we were kind of separating songwriting and playing guitar from the get go. I'll give you that he's a great songwriter no problem.
    Absolutely, but you can't have a complete disregard for technical ability and still be considered a good guitarist, either. I have two main points to make here:

    1) The ability to write songs and the ability to play guitar are two completely separate abilities. I think there is a lot of unwarranted bleed over from Jack White's writing ability to his playing ability. Just because he's great at making three chords or a seven note riff the basis of a song does NOT make him a good guitarist, it makes him a good songwriter.

    2) I know some people love the minimalist style of writing, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, but I (for better or for worse) have a very classical notion of music. Guys like Beethoven or Mozart were brilliant songwriters, but they were also savants at their respective instruments. They literally trained their entire life to be able to play like that. To me, that's quintessential in music. It's not that technical ability is everything, it's not, but technical prowess gives one a much broader pallet with which to write. Now, there is certainly something to be said for a catchy hook or audience participation or simply music as entertainment (otherwise musicians would only be writing for other musicians), but I think think it sucks that a majority of the music in our society has kind of lost that underlying art form. I know, certainly not the way everyone views music, but that's the way I look at it.
    Glad you enjoyed 3 of 4.

    Well I'm obviously not in their head, but I would tend to think the praises lean towards the songwriting aspect.
    I checked out some Raconteurs and DW this morning. The Raconteurs had way better songwriting than The White Stripes ever did in my opinion. Still not my cup of tea, but I can see why people get into it at least. The Dead Weather was even better still, and the guitar actually had a little bit of life in it (hell, I'd even say the riff at the beginning of Hustle and Cuss is actually pretty cool). The only jam session I could find was one with Jimmy Page and The Edge that was just absolutely ungodly horrible (but that was because Jimmy Page can't play in time worth shit, not because of Jack White).

    Tommy is awesome. Very good guitarist, very good performer. Definitely on board here.
  12. Kasmatsu Member

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    I really like this YouTube video. Classical music + metal shredding is always a good time.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
  13. Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    The Dead Weather are one of my favorite bands over the last 5 years. I would suggest listening to both their albums in entirety. They have a hell of a line-up of musicians and Alison Mosshart is both wild and crazy hot on stage. I really hope they get booked for Kanrocksas because they are suppose to do some touring this summer.

    If I can find some jam sessions anywhere, I will post them. However, last time I checked Youtube, the links I had saved had been removed. There is some good stuff in their including some of Jack just playing for like 10 minutes straight. It's better stuff than anything he ever recorded.
  14. vividox Moderator

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    Aug 10, 2005
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    Sporting Kansas City
    Alexi is a really good guitarist. Unfortunately, he's a terrible singer and I really can't get into Children of Bodom much at all. Which is a shame because everything besides the vocals is pretty damn cool.
  15. Kasmatsu Member

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    That is how I feel about most metal for the last 15 years. You'd think some of these bands full of people that have obviously spent a great deal of time learning their instruments would hire singers that have also honed their instrument.



    Here is another metal + classical mash up I really like. It also demonstrates a guitarist who always hires good singers for his bands.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIpsgd0Oq_4&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIpsgd0Oq_4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
  16. KCFutbol Moderator

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    Don't apologize for being right.

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