Jurgen Klinsmann Year 1 Report Card

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by GVPATS77, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. Lascho

    Lascho Member+

    Sep 1, 2008
    Hannover, Germany
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    And unsurprisingly, Chandler said "I want to play for the US in the qualifiers in September", not "in the next games".
     
  2. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just another thread for people who hate JK no matter what.
     
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  3. j0osh

    j0osh Member

    Dec 8, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't examine his player pool selections in a damn vaccum without taking into account that the guy is also trying overhaul our entire system and our style of play, at the same time. He has to reevaluate everyone, get the core guys in line with his philosophy and ONLY THEN let the periphery follow, thats simply the reason for the lack of variety...I for one think his roster decsions (minus one or two) have been pragmatic and exactly what we need at this point.

    Evaluate, critique, and judge all you want...but this is not some short sighted issue where evrything needs to be "fixed" in one calendar year over the course of a dozen or so games, or he is a failure. If anything the effect of what he is doing wont be felt for sometime. Unfortunately that probably means that alot of people will be taking up the position that he is not utilizing the player pool properly.

    Anyone giving D's and F's cause he didn't call in a bunch unproven guys (sorry, most of them are) or your favorite player is being disingenous.
     
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  4. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The German Cup starts 3 days after the Mexico game, and the Bundesliga season starts 9 days after the Mexico game.
     
  5. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, if BB called a player and discard him as not worthy for MNT, the following coach (JK) can not claim as his own to be caped, either because of player improvement or playing a different position. In your dream world I suppose BB should get the recognition.
     
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  6. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I started watching the US since the 2002 WC when I was 8 years old but I started paying close attention to WCQ last cycle back in 2008.
     
  7. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Here's the problem. If you are going to overhaul the entire system, he should have done his homework before getting the job. Shit, he had plenty of derogatory things to say about the US when he was an analyst for ESPN, so he should have had a clue about the player pool.

    His initial plan to overhaul the system seemed to be to call in anyone with a Mexican sounding last name. When that didn't work, he then decided to shoe horn the existing player pool into his new system, despite the fact that his new system didn't even come close to fitting our player pool.

    I've said that a million times. If JK's intention is to overhaul the entire system, it makes more sense to build from the bottom up (i.e. implement whosale changes at the youth national team level, and as those players graduate to the senior side, there is a natural transition.

    He was trying to fit square pegs in round holes and it wasn't working. If our players were capable of playing a possession game that can break down organized defenses, it wouldn't take a year or two years or 3 years to pull it off.

    Our players change teams and systems all the time at the club level, and if it took them 3 years to figure out how to play a different style each time they moved clubs, we wouldn't have a single guy playing professional soccer anywhere in the world.

    The system doesn't fit the player pool...plain and simple.

    He can create a player pool, but not with finished products. He needs to create a player pool made in his vision from the youth levels (which he's largely ignored despite demanding total control over them when hired).

    We had a glaring weaknesses at LB. Fabian Johnson fell in his lap, but we're still razor thin there. And rather than bring in guys like Eric Lichaj, who can provide depth at both positions, he chooses to go with guys like Edgar Castillo, who everyone knows is not up to snuff.

    We had a glaring problem at CB. Everyone on earth knew this. And rather than address this issue in the "meaningless friendlies" by giving guys like Omar Gonzalez (was healthy when JK first took over), George John, Geoff Cameron, Zac Whitbread minutes, he instead ran out the same old faces that were only getting older with each game.

    The only non-regular that he gave consistent minutes to was Tim Ream, who was in the middle of a horrifically poor sophmore season and made one brain fart after another when in a US jersey. That's just poor pool management.

    And with our attack sputtering, with no creativity, Klinsmann continued to use 3 defensive/holding midfielders every match, rather than give a look to guys like Kljestan (who has been tearing it up for Anderlecht) or Benny, or Mix or Corona or even Adu. Again, poor pool management.


    No offense, but at age 8, there is no way that you had the tactical accumen to be able to make an intelligent assessment of how the US played. Even four years ago at age 14, there is no way that you had the tactical accumen to accurately rate Bob Bradley's performance.

    You're a passionate fan. That's awesome.
     
  8. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I started watching the US back in 2002 when I saw the WC commercials in the Spanish channel Univision, it got me so pumped up that I went to sleep around 8pm in order to wake up at 5am to catch the games. I do remember the Bob Bradley era very well it was my first experience watching most of the WC Qualifying cycle and I remember the US struggling on the road in hostile environments like when they lost to Trinidad & Tobago and barely beat Cuba, its no surprise but when it's time to play here in the US we expect to win.
     
  9. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, they play in the 19th against TSV Havelse.
     
  10. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll see what happens, I still think Jurgen will try and call up most of the Bundesliga players.
     
  11. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    What's he waiting for?
     
  12. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Like I said, its one thing to remember the final score. Its another thing to have the tactical acumen to tell the difference between one 1-0 loss and another 1-0 loss. At 14, there is no way you could possibly offer intelligent commentary on the the last qualifying cycle.
     
  13. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol I remember Donovan's amazing side goal against Portugal, his header against Mexico in the Round of 16, the goal that should of been allowed against Germany in the quarterfinals when Frings was touching the ball in the line, Rosicky's amazing goal against the US in the 06 WC, Gooch manhandled Toni against Italy, Ghana stealing the ball from Reyna for an easy goal, I could go on and on I remember a lot probably more than you. Also am I right or wrong that Bob struggled in WCQ when playing in the road in hostile environments? I think anyone who watched last cycles WCQ knows the true answer to that. Please criticize Klinsmann when the US looses a game in WCQ against Guatemala or Jamaica, right now we are leading the group so I'm not complaining.
     
  14. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I'm starting to think that you don't even understand what tactics are let alone have the tactical accumen to analyze a game or a player or a coach.
     
  15. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know what you are talking about and a lot of people have criticized Klinsmann of not knowing tactics, but I think he hired the good guy for the job in January to handle that and that's USMNT assistant coach Andi Herzog. This US team will improve as time goes by, but some people are not patient and they want to see results now. I will judge him in how he does in WCQ, how he does in the 2014 WC if we qualify and in 5-15 years we will know if Klinsmann, Reyna and Perez did a good job fixing our youth system.
     
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  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the first 2 camps he called in Orozco, Castillo, and Torres or 3 of 23. I guess that qualifies as anyone with a Mexican last name. Note he did not call Gomez who was scoring or Corona who we will later learn was poor management on JK's part. I guess JK did not know they were Mexican Americans.

    He called Orozco to test a quick ball handling CB to partner with Boca. Castillo to try to fill an attacking LB hole, (Lichaj was hurt at the time), and Torres to act as a central pivot.

    I guess for some fans, 3 Mexican Americans on the team is "anyone with a Mexican sounding last name".
     
  17. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dempsey isn't seeing enough of the ball, this is a problem. An option at LW would allow for this but we don't have that atm.

    Also lack of wide player's with pace, good crossing. Think of a Cobi Jones, Eddie Lewis, old version of DMB. Do we have any player's like that or will we have to play d-mids out wide when they're used as subs?

    Are Gatt, Corona, and Gyau the answer?

    The bench is full of player's who are too similar. Why the need for Williams AND Beckerman? Why not just one of them? Why not sacrifice a d-mid for a more creative player?

    Why was D. Williams called up if JK knew about his injury? Why not replace him with Beasley? Makes little sense to me.
     
  18. braun

    braun Red Card

    Feb 22, 2001
    metro Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gatt, Corona and Gyau are all right-footed?

    Williams should have never been called in. That was a mistake and I expect more of them from JK.
    I doubt he is going to surprise us with someone or something unexpected.
    Beasley would have been much better than Torres at LB/LM when F Johnson was hurt.
     
  19. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    You realize that Reyna and Perez were in place since 2009. JK didn't retroactively hire them once he got on board.
     
  20. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    He finished in first place in the semi round and the final round. Please define 'struggle.' It would seem he must've did fairly well in order to finish first over all the other teams.

    And yes road qualifying is hard. The tie in El Salvador, ugly wins in Guatamala, Cuba and T&T, customary losses in Mexico and Costa Rica. But there was the HUGE win in Honduras.
     
  21. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i'd certainly hope we would be at this point.
     
  22. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I see an area where different grading scales lead to misunderstandings.

    Most folks would grade like this:
    A = Excellent
    B = Above Average
    C = Average
    D = Below Average
    F = Failure

    But, your grading scale appears to look like this:
    A = Excellent ("exceeds expectations")
    B = Average ("meets expectation")
    C = Below Average ("below expectation")
    D = Farther Below Average ;)
    F = Failure

    So, basically when posters rate JK with a "C" as average or meeting expectations, you are just calling that "B" and it's the same rating, and we more or less agree.
     
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  23. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I think he's doing fine considering what he is trying to do. Tear things down and have our guys play a new style isn't somehting that would happen over night.

    That takes time, and many posters are right. We don't have that time if we essentially want to do better in the next WC. Which will be the true test.

    If we don't show better than we have on the world stage, then you can call this all a failiure.

    Sure, he doesn't have our guys being a world power, but really... who expected that with him as coach? I am just happy he has our guys playing a more 'smarter' style of play matching the rest of the world. IMO, that will be the most important thing that he brings to us, that hopefully... will trickle down to the youth/ coaches so they can mimic what he is trying to get out of our guys, so from this point forward, all our kids learn to play with more 'brains'.
     
  24. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Key words here are "during training camp." JK ran 2-a-day sessions during most of his 5 game tournament, which he was treating as a "real" tournament in which results matter. In other words, he ran 2-a-days AFTER training camp and DURING the season. No team runs extended 2-a-day sessions during the World Cup or during the league season -- JK did.

    In addition, it is foolish to think that JK's 2-a-day session will improve the fitness of these professional players, who will resume their club's training and fitness plans right after being done with JK. Their club's training plans rule 10-11 months of the year, and JK's brief times with them won't change their overall fitness levels.
     
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  25. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Cries of how badly this system is for the players seems to ignore the fact that we have a lot of the same guys, a few new faces, have gone a lot more games without Donovan than we have in years, and we're getting pretty much the same results. We've been a bit better defensively and a bit more pedestrian offensively.

    If you don't like what Klinsmann brings to this team, fine. That's your choice. But to pretend his tactical scheme is so horrifying and beyond what our players can execute and this is somehow going to see our results go off a cliff simply hasn't happened. Looking at the facts results wise, we're thus far treading water...which is why for me he gets an average grade.

    I get the idea that you may feel that's not good enough, that Klinsman is a waste if he's not getting any better play out of the guys than other options. But the gloom and doom talk of how horrifyingly wrong the system is for our player and they simply can't execute it at all is a bit of chicken littling.
     

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