Juan Agudelo/America's next soccer star theads merged [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by JBOBO, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    If lenhart has his crazy blond fro in full effect, I might disagree. We'd likely be the only national team in the world to feature a forward whose coiffure was the bastard child of Willie Aames (in his prime), Christopher Atkins, with a splash of Bruce Villanch and a dollop of Phyllis Diller. The alarm he would cause to centerbacks would be bound to give us some sort of advantage.
     
  2. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Yeah, Bruce Arena did that sort of thing once or twice, bringing in a player jsut to get a taste of camp and what the level of play is like. You can then tell something about him by how he reacts in club play.

    Anyway, it was an excellent 90 for Agudelo, and you cans ee right away he's got talent. Next year could be exciting for him.
     
  3. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    For sure he is no Robbie Findley....:p
     
  4. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    thought he cut it down??

    Seems like im posting about Agudelo on 3 different pages :D

    Agudelo has serious potential. No need to go into his positives as they've been listed.

    The biggest flaw in Agudelo that ive noted last night was that he needed to lift his head and view the field. Several plays could have resulted in goals if he distributed quicker and better. He could have had a couple more assists to JPA if he dropped it back towards the 18 rather then ripping a no angle shot at goal (though he did hit the post on one).

    Small problem that can certainly be fixed. He's definitely making a case for a january or even a November call. Bob isnt bringing the regulars to S.Africa, so why not give him the run out. Wasnt that Jozy's first cap?? at least one of his first few cap.
     
  5. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    This kid has the techincal skills and vision of a player that was raised in colombia or latin america. He has the size too to finish stuff in the air, and to protect himself and 'body' people.


    He is the American version, and younger version of Fredy Montero.

    This kid is sick, great footwork, great passing, vision....... can't wait to see what he will do with the USA.

    To think how close Colombia was at getting him....
     
  6. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    A) Where did I ever mention his age? Its his lack of MLS experience that concerns me.
    B) Many of those players were still capped prematurely. Their first caps were basically wasted, and in the case of Adu I'm not sure that was good for his career to get as much as he got so soon.
    C) My principal concern is to reward players before they've put in enough work in, making them think things will continue to come easily for them.

    In Agudelo's case, I want to wait until he consistently earns a starting spot, and can build a consistent body of work in MLS. Not because I doubt his talent, but because I want to make sure hes got a firm handle on walking before asking him to run.
     
  7. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    close to signing with a colombian team, not getting him :p
     
  8. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    They'd see him and pull him in!!! :p Screw them and Millionarios! Who might I add is one of their big teams over there.
     
  9. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    In some older YNT thread, I rated Agudelo as one of the top five pro prospects on that 2009 U17 Nat's team (ahead of guys like Duran, McInerney, Jerome, etc.), even though he was used mostly as a sub with that team. So, I'm very high on his potential. I wouldn't be against calling him into Camp Cupcake, BUT, I wouldn't be upset if the Senior team was more patient and waited until he had actually played most of a whole professional season first.

    What I really like about some recent US player development is the beginning, the hint, the glimmer, of young players coming through a professionally-connected program. Altidore and Agudelo are good examples. No college. Pro scouts and pro trainers working with young pro prospects, all linked together by actual professional clubs. THAT is the future for the US, because THAT's the proven path elsewhere in the professional soccer world.
     
  10. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Because Findley has 29 more professional goals?

    Listen, can we at least expect our full national team forwards to have a career professional goal first before we cap them? An absolute minimum of just 1?

    Its not like I want to see Lenhart or Findley in the national team uniform more then Agudelo, its just I think there is a minimum standard of professional performance necessary before I think we should start capping people.
     
  11. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    And that minimum is not playing well in 2 games. Just 2 games? And we cap him?
    Let's take this slow, Let him rest off season, play in the U20 camps and games, let him go through preseason with expectation and pressure, let's see how he responds next season and how he improves his game before we even think of capping him. Oh wait he'll be 18 and be too old..
     
  12. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I absolutely agree with your last statment but Altidore didn't come up with the academy and isn't a good example of the process you mention. Najar and Agudelo is.
     
  13. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Premature Capulation?
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I don't think anybody disagrees with your assessment. Nobody's talking about making him an important part of our program.

    Juan, for the most part, will be involved with our U20 squad over the next year. (qualifying for the U20WC in 2011, preparations, and then the tourney, etc.) And he'll probably be an option for our U23 team at the 2012 Olympics, as we don't have a lot of quality forwards in the 21-22 age group right now other than Jozy. (Where have you gone Peri Marosevic and Tony Taylor?) So Juan will get plenty of opportunities to prove himself with our national team programs over the next several years.

    However, if Bob Bradley thinks this kid has the talent to be truly special......then there's no harm in giving him a little taste of the USMNT. We don't even have to cap him. I remember Bruce Arena calling up an 18-year old Michael Bradley in a pre-WC06 camp to do just that. Bruce had no intention of using Michael in WC06, but he could see the talent. Might as well start 'em young.

    Juan Agudelo is eligible to play for Colombia (and has Juan Pablo Angel, one of his boyhood heros, chirping in his ear). Let's not f*ck around here if we think he's got the talent to be a special player. A callup to the full national team would tell him just how committed were are to him. He's about to turn 18.................not 15. We've called up plenty of players that age before.
     
  15. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Ya, but the thing is, we don't have tons of options with the NATS at forward. Past Altidore, you got many problems. Findley, and I was joking, exemplifies the problem: he just isn't good enough.

    With camp cupcake, and South Africa coming up, why not bring him in? Not to make him an integral part of the team now, but for a little exposure.
     
  16. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I personally am strongly opposed to cap tying players just to cap tie them. If I were in the national team setup I would express my interest in Agudelo's future, and then advise him to wait to make any final decisions either way until hes ready.

    I understand why you might feel desperate, but at this point its a 4 year cycle. There is no reason not to take it slower here.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Yeah, I had been thinking about this possibility, too.

    But I think that one thing we have in our favor is the fact that JP Angel was pretty much a dud with the Colombian national team, so he might not have the closest relationship with their federation.
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I am when I think there's a possibility they're going to be special talents. I wouldn't say I'd be "cap typing them just to cap tie them." After all if it's a friendly (such as the camp cupcake game), it wouldn't cap tie them anyway. It would be to demonstrate to them just how commited we are to their development.

    I detest talking about Rossi and Subotic, because it opens up a whole can of worms and disinformation................but somebody asked me the other day what we could have done differently in those cases. And my only answer was that we could have shown a greater commitment to them as younger players. Rossi was clearly the best young US-eligible forward we had in the pipeline while he was a ManU reserve.........and Bruce tried to get him. According to media reports Giussepe was willing to play for us if Bruce promised him a place on the WC06 team (could be a false rumor. That's just what I remember).........which Bruce refused to do. Instead we called up MLS guys like Brian Ching he didn't actually use in the World Cup.
     
  19. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I sort of agree that we should not rush things and that there is no need to do so. However, I do question how anyone outside his coaches or the USSF coaches can determine what constitutes "enough" work or gauge anything about his professionalism or work ethic. Also, I wonder what this minimum standard is and whether it should be or is applied to every player in the pool. Otherwise, it seems arbitrary...x starts in y league and z goals....And for that reason, I am more inclined to approach it on a case by case basis and trust that the coaches know enough about the different players to make such calls.

    I see no harm in bringing him into camp cupcake for the experience, even if he doesn't play. Also, I think its telling that Backe started him twice playoffs when he had other more experienced options. I understand there were injuries at forward, but Backe had other options than playing Agudelo in both games.
     
  20. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I agree with you here. The very first test for me is the desire to play for us. I recognize that many of our potential MNT players will have other options, so we should express an appropriate level of interest every step of the way. With that said, if some players choose other NTs, so be it - they've failed the primary test.

    Disagree here, but out of pragmatism, not desperation. I am projecting our team's needs and looking ahead to next summer's Gold Cup (with CC qualification at stake); WC qualifying and the 2014 WC itself.

    Why would I wait to see if Agudelo bangs in a few goals next April and May? To satisfy some minimum test? To keep his ego from becoming as big as all outdoors (i.e. Altidore's)?

    No and no. I have no minimum standards, and out-sized egos don't trouble me in the slightest. For me the only question is could bringing Agudelo in now - not for SA this month, presumably, but for an extended period of direct observation in January - pay dividends next summer, in qualifying and/or 2014.

    I would answer "yes," and if BB sees the potential that most of us here see, he should reach the same conclusion.

    You see no reason not to wait, and I see no reason to wait - one of the many 'fault lines' that so often divide BS posters - I hope this one breaks my way!
     
  21. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    ^^^^^

    One thing that really impressed me was how Agudelo received balls (especially with his back to goal). He seemed to have a good sense of where his markers were (or were not) and adjusted the ways he received the ball accordingly (e.g., let the ball run, turn one way instead of the other, or just hold up). This skill set usually takes some time to develop.
     
  22. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    And, if that did happen, I think Bruce was right in that refusal.

    Players should never EVER ask for guarantees. "Can of worms" doesn't begin to describe all the nasty permutations that could result from such promises because these things, invariably, get out into the public.
     
  23. minya

    minya Member

    Mar 27, 2008
    san diego, ca
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    Are you sure you don't confuse players with slaves? Just imagine NBA or NFL number one draft choice asking whether he would start. Unthinkable.
    Would be so horrible to have Rossi on the team.
     
  24. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I think I agree with Karl K.
     
  25. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Re: Juan Agudelo

    I am all about cap tying if there is a serious chance that a player can jump ship to another NT.... well considering if they have serious talent.... which this kid has.
     

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