Jozy and the Footycats: Altidore at Sunderland

Absolute bullshit.

 

I'd wager that out of the top leagues fans in England are probably the most likely to give American players something close to a fair shake. Maybe even because of Big Brad Friedel alone.

But yeah, the hate towards Altidore has been over-the-top from some folks, just as some of most glaring praise has likewise been. Overall I'd say he's made more of an impact than he did with Hull, but his goal output remains terrible. Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't missed making the bench more often this season.

 

Um, okay. How so?

 

And desperately trying to avoid relegation.....

Tina, out of curiosity, would Jozy be in your starting 11 for each of our group games n Brazil?

 

Man, do you need to ask?

Liz lemon has made it clear Jozy would make it to his last supper for 12.

 

Agree. The first part of your post is called "accountability". Take responsibility for your own actions.

 

I was plumbing the ultimate philosophical question: Is unconditional love really possible?

 

Jozy's time at Sland is over. It is unfortunate but Geoff Cameron and Brad Guzan and Tim Howard are the only current successful US players in the EPL. Jozy needs to do some self assessment and choose his next destination carefully.

Oh and Sunderland remains a horrid club with an abysmal midfield.

 

Geez, what is the deal with the vitriol? Sunderland played a very good first half and started fine in the second until Man City was able to turn it around with two superb strikes in the 55th and 57th minute. When you have the quality of players Man City has, goals can come out of nowhere like those. As it was, S'land was still in it until the 90th min when it became 3-1. What are you going to do? The wage bill of S'land's starting 11 probably wouldn't pay for 2 of Man City.

I don't know all of Poyet's thinking regarding keeping Jozy out but he isn't an idiot and sometimes a manager just needs to make a move. The worst thing Jozy could do at this point is feel sorry for himself while wishing he had a midfield other than the one he has providing him service. S'land has a tough fight to stay up and they definitely need for Jozy to fight to get back in the line-up and do whatever he can to help them stay up regardless of the type of service he gets.

 

This is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. No personal attack Chrisss, just happened to click your post out of many with the same idea.

There is NO way to be successful scoring goals as a forward with no service. It's like trying to have kids without a woman.

Jozy's mistake was putting his career in jeopardy with yet another bad move. He is an excellent player, but quite poor choosing his destinations. He needs a more managerial style agent than the current salesman he has, someone who can help him evaluate and choose the best moves for himself.

 

I agree with your latter statement. It's kind of odd that the best Jozy's agent could do is Sunderland + Dynamo Kiev and 3 Russian clubs...you'd think someone in Italy or Germany would give him a shake.

 

No personal attack, but talk about ridiculous. First, you didn't read what I said. I said Jozy needs to do whatever he can to help Sunderland even if doesn't get the best service. That's not saying go out and score a boat load of goals. I realize he isn't going to get a ton of chances to score goals but that isn't the only job of a forward. As it is, last thing he should do now is get discouraged because it will only limit the clubs that will be interested in him. Clubs scouting Jozy understand the service he is getting. They will look at all aspects of his game to determine how he would fit with them. A "more managerial style agent"? Oh boy. This would have not been the worst move in the world if he scored a few goals and he certainly had the chance to do that but wound up poking it directly at the keeper a number of times.

 

Serie A and BL1 clubs know who Jozy is. Maybe there were clubs interested but not for the transfer fee. AZ may not have been willing to sell him for something less. S'land was willing to make the $13M investment which is good from the aspect that they weren't going to sit him on the bench for that amount. If Jozy wants to move again, he needs to help S'land recoup some of their investment to get their cooperation and the best way to do that is through giving the best performance that he can - goals or no goals.

 

We await your grand thesis.

 

tl;dr

 

Funny, there is a glaring difference between the comments in this thread and pretty much everywhere else that’s not Jozy centric.

On Big soccer I’m reading stuff akin to: “Sunderland sucks, just plain bad, horrid, abysmal, a joke. “Sunderland fans suck; England sucks.” “Poyet Sucks. Poyet’s made a dick move.” Everyone’s mad a Poyet, hates Sunderland fans, thinks they are a crap team.

Outside of Big Soccer it's the complete opposite:

Listening to 606 I heard comments like Sunderland had a “great effort”, “Sunderland fans were wonderful.” “Poyet is a great manager. The change between DiCanio is night and day.”

Some comments on The Guardian website: “That Borini finish was exquisite” “Sunderland were very good today”, “a spirited and often dangerous Sunderland,” “Well played Sunderland, it just wasn't your day.” “Brave effort from plucky Sunderland.” Sunderland fan said, “Delighted with Sunderland, both today (esp first half) and over the last couple of months.” “Commiserations to Sunderland -- thought their fans were brilliant” “WOW! Sunderland gave an excellent account of themselves” “Poyet has got the squad playing at their best. This was a good performance especially the first half.” “Sunderland and their fans were fantastic (can’t believe they are in the bottom 3)” Daily Mail comments went like: From a Sunderland fan “You have to give it to Sunderland they played with their hearts really well played” Another Sunderland fan, “You did me proud today lads.”

It’s clear to me that Sunderland fans, fans of the EPL from around the globe, and objective observers have a vastly different take on things than the yank abroad fan that really only cares about the USMNT.

This whole thing is starting to remind me of the Tim Tebow saga.

 

Fair enough. I still don't think there are 18 players better than him in that team.

 

Ok. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. Not sure any of those comments I mentioned addressed such an issue. Side note: a striker isn't really competing for spots with all 18 players just the the other strikers.

 

S'land did well in the 1st half, aided by a fairly listless and tired Man City side. After the break they were outclassed; on the balance it was a respectable, but not brilliant performance. But that's only if you evaluate this one match in a vacuum.

If you're an American fan tuning in (hoping) for Jozy it's easy to miss out on the context. Sunderland's League Cup run has been an inspirational success irrespective of the final's outcome and is the one real bright narrative in a very difficult season. Imagine if your local mid-major makes an improbable run to the Final Four and gives Kentucky a hard time for one half? Of course it's a feel-good story regardless, Sunderland got to freaking Wembley.

As for Jozy not making the squad: it's really a chain reaction resulting from Poyet deciding to play Borini at CF. The most likely 2nd half scenario was S'land being down by 1 or 2 goals, so you want to have a goal-poaching forward who can come off the bench and nick one: Fletcher fits that description, even if he isn't fully fit. Bringing Jozy on at 70' to provide hold-up play and defend wasn't all that likely to be needed, and Scocco is the quick, mobile alternative. There is no point in using 2 of your 7 bench slots on both Fletcher and Jozy. In the end, the Borini move worked and Fletch didn't - you can second-guess it all you want, but this is a difficult tactical dilemma with no single correct answer, as Poyet admitted.

I thought Poyet showed empathy when he mentioned Jozy in the post-match comments and acknowledged that a player who contributed to the cup run would feel aggrieved at being left out entirely. In addition he sent a clear message that this isn't the end for Jozy at the club; rather, he issued a challenge for him to bounce back positively and deliver the goods. It's fair to say that Poyet understands the player's POV well.

 

He's dead, Jim.

 

A little early for that, no? But yeah, it seems likely considering he is possibly also the only one in the US pool capable of properly working top level defenders as a #9. At least the only one we know for certain can do it. Besides, you guys all need to realize that club form is not 100% of the criteria for a World Cup/international start. It is not really that close to the full pie, either. But all that is a discussion for a different forum.

I do not believe in unconditional love. To me, use of this term usually makes the person wanting it sound like they want love no matter how awful they behave. I want to continually earn the love I get and have the love I give not taken for granted.

You fellas can say stuff like this all you wish, but it does not ever become any less of a wild exaggeration. I have said repeatedly that he has not played to his capability this season. The only problem had with me in this thread is that I do not unfairly bash him nearly enough. Meanwhile, some of the posters on your side of things will bash the guy even after the manager says he was key to their recent winning run. He gets bashed when the keeper makea a great stop on him, but no no no we cannot put any blame on other Sunderland players.

And as for the UK pundits (snickergiggle) and BS members claiming Sunderland played a brave/good/whatever game yesterday, I mean wow. Talk about hopping a bar an inch off the ground. They were quite typically shite yesterday, leading because Borini took advantage of some garish defending to pot a nifty finish. It is true, regardless of how long it took Man City to take the game seriously.

 

This.

When he signed with Sunderland I did a face palm. I thought it was a catastrophically stupid career move. For a player like Jozy, he needs to go to a league/club where he can get the service he needs to be the productive player he is. He's not a top 10-20 player in the world superstar, he's not a top 20 striker. He's an excellent forward when he gets even decent service.

Sunderland was/is basically a recipe for disaster. 18th in goal scores in the EPL last year, every time I watched them, they had an anemic, toothless attack, poor midfield play, nothing creative to speak of. Why on earth go there? At least do some due diligence for gods sake. Reminds me of those morons on draft day in the NFL or NBA who talk about how catstrophic a players fall in the draft is.

Really?

Often a fall is the best thing that can happen to a player long term because he ends up landing in an organization that is more likely to be well run (which will lead to a wonderful second contract, rather than a "failure" second contract which often is basically a demotion deal). Go early, you're going to a team that either had a nightmare season, or is consistently run incompetently, about 75-85% of the time it's the latter and that is never good for a career.

He would have been much better served looking for a transfer to a league or a club or both where his style of play would be rewarded, and where he'd be surrounded by good management, and quality players around him, not a squad that would see its manager kicked to the curb in no time at all, and its attack remain anemic no matter who was brought in.

 

I agree with your overall sentiment about choosing destinations, but we also need to remember AZ in the equation. They were always the first door to get through and none of the other interested parties were able/willing to match the Sunderland transfer bid (or in the case of Lazio, were unable to do it fast enough because they were still had to sell Kozak first).

I still wonder, though, what might have happened to Altidore this season if Sunderland had also been able to name the right Bradley price in August. A no-nonsense field general is one of the things they sorely lack and Bradley would not stand for the team ignoring their #9 the way they do. Of course, maybe Bradley rejects the move anyway, using your take on the buying team when he was already on a big league title contender.

 

Let us not forget DiCrazio in this whole farce. The guy must be pretty charismatic to get folks to overlook the giant Il Duce tat on his back and the sundry random fascist salutes tossed around the odd football game and funeral. It was obviously not just Jozy who took hook, line and sinker, but by the time everyone realized the con was on, it was late in the game and everyone was running for the nearest raft.

Sunderland is not good, but they are not as bad as they played in the 1st half of the season. An additional issue is the Brown/O'Shea pairing, which, when healthy and not red-carded has been certainly an almost mid-table, or at least "not relegation" defensive pairing. The problem is when they are out it's frying pan to fire and at least one of them has been out, what, half the games so far?

Robbie Savage, shockingly, did a nifty little analysis of S'land with and without the pair of geezers. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26328622

Jozy has not done what he needs to to show up on the scoreboard, but he has also not been awful. It seems to me that Fletcher, despite his two more goals, has been worse overall for S'land (his achilles my have played a part in that to be fair.) Borini should also be able to, based on his past, get a few things going and lately he seems to have.

I am not too optimistic about Scocco contributing a lot this season. It will come down to Adam, Borini, Jozy, Gia, Fletch, perhaps, Ki (as if I'm saying anything everyone doesn't know.) Hopefully Jozy gets into some games where S'land is clicking and can help them stay up. I think they are easily as good as if not better than Norwich, Palace and West Brom (as well as Fulham and Cardiff). The only question is whether they can beat them when they need to.

 

Poyet is an absolutely fantastic manager who has given Jozy countless chances. Jozy only has his self to blame.

You are a blind homer if you think Poyet is to blame.