John Doyle Death Watch and Post Mortem

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by KMJvet, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jd doesn't have to be close to as good as billy beane. between the extremely restrictive salary cap, lack of true free agency, and the fact that 55% of mls teams make the playoffs vs. 33% of mlb teams... it's much easier for a smaller club to be successful in mls than in mlb.

    by the way, beane has been running the A's for 16 going on 17 seasons and the A's have made the playoffs 7 times in that span.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    BTW, on another note, I heard JD wanted Billy Beane out when he was trying to interfere with the Quakes affairs. JD told him to get lost as he knew nothing about soccer and Lew obliged.
     
  3. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #578 JazzyJ, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    I agree to a point, but even Beane is not "persistently" successful in MLB with the A's. He goes through "build and tear down" phases. There are some clubs in MLS who seem to have reached a "persistently successful" state, namely RSL, Houston, and now maybe KC. So if you raise the bar as applied to MLS, because as you say, just making the playoffs in a particular year is not that hard, then I do think you need someone really smart to enable your club to be successful over a number of consecutive years.

    RSL has had 50+ points seasons for 4 seasons straight and will likely make it 5 this year. Houston has missed the playoffs only one year out of its 8 in existence I think. Neither of these teams are among the "big spenders" in MLS.

    Not sure I completely believe that story, but even though Beane is not a soccer guy (and he would be the first to admit it), he is a fan and probably knows more about it than you might imagine. I think Doyle would benefit from some involvement with Beane, just to kind of talk through some ideas - how to be creative and potentially find some insights that might help - things that kind of transcend any one particular sport. Beane has exchanged ideas and perhaps influenced some EPL guys like Damien Comolli. So if it's good enough for EPL, I've gotta believe it's good enough for Doyle and the Quakes. But if Doyle is not receptive to it, it's not going to happen.

    http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...fame-to-choose-new-players-article811072.html
     
  4. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it's impossible to reach a "persistently successful" state in MLB if you're a small club like the A's or Rays. I was pointing out that even the best small market gm in baseball has had quite a few seasons out of the playoffs. as an A's fan I still supported him through those lean years but there were quite a few A's fans calling for his head back in 2010 and 2011.
    I agree it is possible for us to be persistently successful in MLS... RSL and Houston are definitely the clubs to model although I would throw KC out because 1) it's too short a period of success and 2) they got $160 million of monopoly money from the taxpayers that we don't have. Houston in particular is interesting... if Watson can't get it done this season perhaps he gets sacked and we bring Dom home for 2015.
     
    hc897 repped this.
  5. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    RSL and Houston are good examples as they just seem to be doing something different than every other team, and yet also have different playing styles. I'm not convinced that any particular style is what's needed to have success. Houston is especially interesting to me because, looking at the roster, I find myself mostly unimpressed with the players as individuals. Yet, collectively, they are extremely well put together and consistent. Salt Lake has a bit of both, excellent individual players as well as a very good collective process.

    Then there's the Quakes, who certainly express the players working for each other and being a collective, yet have inconsistent performances and pretty large swings in quality from year to year. So what is different? Doyle's negotiating abilities and leverage in terms of convincing players to land in San Jose might be a factor. His network of player selection might be poorer than other teams. His coaching staffs might not have been as good. Probably a bit of all of this.

    I'm curious to see if the ability to provide better game and training facilities will make a positive difference. Hopefully it will, but I don't think it's going to be enough on its own to make up for the issues the Quakes have had.
     
  6. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #581 JazzyJ, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    I would say it's not impossible, just very hard.

    FWIW, since Beane took over as GM I think they A's have not been 1st or 2nd in the division in just 4 out of 16 years, and one of those was his first year when he inherited a bad team. So I think he's really had only one 3-year or so down period in his 16 years. So he may be getting close to reaching a place where he can keep the team highly competitive year after year. We'll see, it could all fall apart this year though it hasn't so far...
     
  7. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the Zura incident wasn't enough to get him sacked, what is?

    We look to be in for a long rough season. Djalo is really good, and JJ looks promising, so maybe we can turn it around, but we're going to be in a very deep hole very soon if we don't start winning.

    If we bomb out this season, then I think there's a good chance that Wat(TF) gets sacked. Not sure about Doyle.

    If Doyle is pinning his hopes on getting Dom back, I think there's a good chance that we cannot sign Dom, and that Doyle subsequently gets the sack. (Well, that's my hope. I'd love for Dom to come back, but I don't think there's any way that he comes back to the Quakes. Thus, it might be possible that Doyle gets the sack for promising and not delivering on same.)

    Otherwise, if we stink this year (very likely) and we stink next year (also likely, with or without a coaching change), then there's a solid chance that JD gets the sack.

    And basically, I think we're going to do poorly this season. If we fire Wat(TF), then we'll have a rebuilding season, which probably means another season of suck. If we don't fire Wat(TF) he will continue to be out coached by nearly every other team in the league.

    We're in a bad space.

    go quakes!!
    Fire JD and MW!!

    - Mark
     
  8. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    midfield
     
  9. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You are missing a huge part of this. Michael Crowley is both president of the A's and managing director of the Quakes. He is, in fact, ultimately the man in charge and you can bet he seeks advice from his good buddy Billy Beane even if not in a formal capacity. Crowley sets the Quakes' team budget and organizational goals and long-term plans to fit the endgame desired by Wolff and Fisher.
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  10. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    And they have won one playoff series in that 17 year span.
     
    QuietType repped this.
  11. bigdumbgod

    bigdumbgod Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Next question would be: Does Crowley know anything about soccer, or is he yet another yes-man to JD's untouchable soccer brilliance?
     
  12. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    would've been 2 if jeremy giambi remembered to slide at home plate :cry:
     
  13. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Crowley is an accountant, he knows numbers. He learned baseball on the job sort of like Kaval is trying to do with soccer. Unfortunately neither of them knows soccer, otherwise the team might have an identify besides "Goonies" and the stadium might have been designed a bit differently.
     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Let's hear it for JD and his incredible signings!
     
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Anyone know if he went to Brazil or is he taking a sabbatical?
     
  16. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I bet JD is on vacation, and nowhere near Brasil. I can't imagine JD and MW not watching every World Cup game and trying to identify players we might go after. But I'll bet money that JD isn't doing that.

    We need an infusion of not just talent, but vision, creativity, and good thinking. We all have our lists of what new players we need or at least positions to upgrade, but without new leadership it's all academic.

    Woe is us!

    Go Quakes!!
    Fire JD and MW!!

    - Mark
     
  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    It would be nice to pull some no names out of the World Cup hat....
     
  18. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #593 JazzyJ, Jun 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
    Couple names on my wish list, so far:

    Thomas Muller (Hah, right. Hey, wait, he's already on our team!!! Did Doyle just sign him!!? Doyle is incredible!!! ...........Doh, that's "unable to play kinda rookie" defender Tommy Muller :--( ).

    Keisuke Honda (was interested in this guy after the last WC, and he's still doin' it). Guess we'd have to wrestle him away from A.C. Milan, where he doesn't seem to play all that much?
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    If we can dream, I'd take a 35 year old Andrea Pirlo but sadly, it won't ever happen...
     
  20. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pay him the equivalent of Italy, and I'd bet he'd take you up on it. As big as he is with the media here, the recognition for SJE would soar.
     
  21. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Does he do commercials and stuff, like Mao Asada, and of course, Ichiro (who is probably in a class by himself)?
     
  22. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Joel Campbell. Arsenal scrub who would wreak havoc as a Quakes right winger.
     
  23. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The answer to that is "Yes."
     
  24. Quakesss

    Quakesss Member+

    Nov 16, 2013
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jermain Jones.
     
  25. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think BigSoccer whiners head's would explode with Jones, Lenhart and Muma on the field together.
     

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