It's time to stop playing Freddy out of position

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by soccersonoma10, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. nobody

    nobody Member+

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    The size to play on the wing? Do we really need to get into a listing of all the small wingers who play around the world. Wing players have about the least need for size of anyplace on the field. I'm not entirely sold on Adu at this point, but if he does get a shot, I'd likely expect it to be on the left because he's certainly not getting Dempsey's spot, which could also go to Donovan. If you want to talk about size, he's in no way a battler up top to replace Altidore and really even the more central midfield roles generally involve more battling. So you're left with wing positions which fit his skill set or you get into the defensive spots which surely don't. And considering we do have a lack of left sided attackers, if he gets a chance anywhere I would expect it as one of the wing players, most likely the left.

    I'm not at all sold on this #10 or nothing thing for Adu. Players have to work themselves up and demonstrate they can handle a lessor role before they get the key positions. If Adu can only play as a central #10, he can kiss his possible spot in Brasil goodbye as that spot is Dempsey's with the chance of Donovan slotting in there at least through 2014.


  2. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Adu has 2 goals and 2 assists in 8 games worth of minutes at Senior level. Pretty good considering his peripatetic career and halting development. Shea as 1 assist in 9 games worth of minutes at Senior level.

    Hopefully end product counts for something in Klinsmann's world.

    A healthy and in form Beasley has an impressive international record. I don't think he's really a downgrade from Johnson in that '3' spot, but then it's been a while since an in form Beasley has played for the US.
  3. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    i couldn't be bothered to look up statistics. i don't care enough. i watch every USMNT games, and shea has been wholly underwhelming. if you think that statistics are going to prove to anyone that shea is a good player, well...:rolleyes:
  4. dsirias

    dsirias Member

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    Freddy's problem is Nowak right now. Freddy has done everything possible playing with National teams in the last year (demonstrate skill, IQ, effort, performance) to be called up. Yet Nowak still won't play him or play him in his proper central role. ( Why does Freddy alkways end up with Nowak?) But Nowak doesn''t matter long term. Nowak is going to get fired this year. If Freddy puts in maximum effort every second he gets a chance with Club, that will be enough for Klinsmann IMHO. Freddy can spell Dempsey and maybe even get some minutes out wide against certain opponents.


  5. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Very true although I believe Freddy has 3 assists and we can add that DMB is the number 2 active career assist leader.

    All that is not relevant to playing the wings in JK's scheme. Freddy is a unique talent on the ball but he just does not have the lungs or defensive track back/ball winning skills to play the wings in the current scheme. Neither does Dempsey FWIW.

    Not a knock on Adu, it is just the way it is.
  6. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    This is a really poor argument.
    You make a claim, now back it up.
  7. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    i don't have to back up anything. shea has been poor with the senior team. its up to him, not statistics, to disprove that
  8. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    The statistics show otherwise. His pass completion ratio is the third highest of all the players. Of the attack minded players he's the one with the highest tackling percentage. He has most efforts on goal. He works harder than anyone when looking at his distance covered.
  9. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Must spread rep and all
  10. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    I hope you want to spread rep 'cause you realize I just made that up to neutralize soccersonoma10's unfair advantage in this discussion. If he can make things up, then so can 'we'.
  11. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    its difficult for me to refute your belief that shea is a good player with such overwhelming and convincing evidence.

    I will let you know when his play on the field mirrors the lofty expectations you have set with your obviously false statistics. it will probably never happen though;)
  12. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I only wish I had even more rep.
  13. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    Honestly, Shea was never a starter. We've just never had our full squad with JK yet.

    If we have Donovan, Dempsey, Chandler he does not start period.

    If I had to choose who to take off the bench in a big game it would have to be Adu over Shea, easily.


    ---------Altidore-----------
    Dempsey-----Donovan-------Chandler
    ---------Bradley(8)-----Jones(6)----------
    Johnson----Boca----Ream/Goodson-------Lichaj/Cherundolo


    JK has taken a liking to Shea but I'm not sure he makes the bench if we have our full team. Some new faces will probably be brought into this camp,Gatt, Corona, Adu, maybe even some of the MLS rookies.
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    If many posters had their way Michael Bradley would have been on the bench for the last four years in favor of Maurice Edu.
  15. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    Last 4 years? Come on...

    Many people became vocal because Bradley hadn't played in 6 months and was starting matches in the GC.
  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Well done, well done, well done!
  17. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    Pretty much all that has to be said. it's unfortunate that the Shea lovers had to come and pollute this thread
  18. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    believe me, many people were vocal since 2007
  19. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    Much like the Bradley lovers of last cycle :rolleyes:

    In the end, i dont want Adu on the game day roster if he can't solidify his club status first.
  20. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    And while we are on the subject, IMO, Shea's play is down b/c of his ridiculously busy schedule. Since JK's tenure started in September, Shea finished a break out full season with FCD, played several Intl' games for the USMN, played in many U23 camps, participated in some Euro training (Arsenal?), joined FCD for preaseason, Camp Cupcake, regular season with FCD and the Olympic Quals.

    It hasnt even been a year and Shea is easily the most active USMN player under JK. The kid needs some rest. Much of what i said about MB under Bob. MB deserved his spot but he was being over played and his game around the 75min marker showed.
  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Couple of issues with your lineup:

    1) Dempsey is not a JK Scheme wing plus he is our best finisher so he stays in the CAM/SS slot.
    2) Johnson unlike Chandler is not a great 1v1 defender so you would not put an even worse 1v1 defender in front of him.
    3) If Adu comes on late it will be to replace one of the CMs, likely the #8. Dempsy slides up as a SS and Adu slots behind him as the CAM. Shea comes on as an AML replacement. They are not competing with each other.
  22. voros

    voros Member

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    Well I guess that's where we strongly disagree. I don't think there's anything "lessor" about one of the wide AMs in the 4-2-3-1 than the central one. Your best player can have the same impact in either spot.

    The difference in where they play is in the skillset. The wide AMs have a crucial role in the offense that a traditional #10 doesn't, and that is as an out and out 2nd striker in certain situations on the field. The Sneijder type player is always going to hover around 15 to 35 yards from goal, whereas the wings in the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 are expected to make lots of far post runs and poach in the box.

    To me, it's obvious that if you compare the games of Dempsey and Adu, Adu is far more the Sneijder type and far less the C. Ronaldo (a wing player in a 4-2-3-1 for RM) type. And of course Dempsey is the opposite. Dempsey charging into the box and scoring is his primary skill.

    Donovan is the wild card in that he's shown a lot of ability to do both fairly well (in some ways Donovan would make a nice false 9, but it's a tough position to play well in a National Team scenario). In any event, with the three as a block behind the striker, I think you'd see a ton of inter-change anyway.

    Without Freddy, we're better off in the 4-3-3 with Dempsey and Donovan on the wings. I don't think Shea is a starter in either when we're at full health. I think it's more Freddy vs. one of the CMs in the 4-3-3 as to which gives us the better chance. I don't think Freddy is necessarily one of our best players, but he is somewhat unique (for us) in his ability from the #10 spot. We just don't have those.
  23. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    Essentially, 4231 is just a variation of a 433. While it would be nice to see Freddy play in the middle, I don't think Klinsmann is the type of coach that will give him that chance while Dempsey is playing so well. I do think that Freddy has a future as our 10/playmaker, as he is the only player in our current pool with great creativity and a willingness to take people on. IMO, for Freddy to succeed on the national team, he will have to prove himself on the wing first. I would imagine we would line up with adu-----demps-----donovan as our attacking midfield trio, but if donovan isn't healthy, things could change.
  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    The thing is, much better things generally happen when Freddy DOESN'T take people on. That's not his strong suit. Part of Freddy's maturation process if things go well will be for him to transition from a 1v1 dribbler to a playmaker.
  25. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    you are right, but, with that being said, his ability/willingness to take people on will open up more space on the field to find the final pass. when someone like shea has the ball, defenders know that he isn't really a threat to dribble by them. freddy is a lot more unpredictable, in a (mostly) good way
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