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Discussion in 'USA Men' started by soccersonoma10, Mar 28, 2012.
I wish the Nats had a Robbie Fowler.
I do agree that the Nats have a different and better/more dynamic offense with Freddy, but Juergen realizes this is a friendly that doesn't matter, and he wants Freddy to be good for the World Cup, not for some random friendly.
D. Williams should never ever be used as a wide option again. And Shea would be an even worse callup than Adu at this time.
Ah, so we do agree on some things.
It's his first full season in 6 years. My take on the player always includes this in mind. He's missed out on quite a bit of tactical development. The stamina needs work. He's done enough of the 'Freddy of Old' stuff to demonstrate the wunderkind still resides within in. But he's nowhere near being a complete player--the type who can be influential game in and game out.
Adu left the league as a project and came back as a project, an expensive one at that.
Adu didn't perform nearly well enough to save Nowak's job. He's doing just well enough to
hopefully remain a starter under Hackworth and continue to develop. He was at least alert
enough not to go all Brek Shea in the latest kerfuffle.
The tactical challenges facing the Union have shifted during Hackworth's tenure. Early on
the team was able to set up in a counter-attacking manner using the passing of Okugo,
Adu, and Marfan to spring players in behind opposition defenses. This was highlighted by
demolitions of Toronto and Kansas City and the daylight robbery at the HDC. The
countertrend started by Kansas City has seen teams set their blocks low. Adu is having to
adjust and find his game in somewhat fluid circumstances.
Yet the tally stands at 3 goals and 1 assist in 11 games worth of minutes, rather productive for a midfielder. There's a pk he didn't earn but then he's been instrumental in a good number of key attacking movements as well, so the numbers are a fair reflection of his contribution. There remains lingering suspicion that at Philly as with the other club teams the player has been productive without the commensurate influence.
Progress imo is completing the regular season with at least 1800 minutes and something along the lines of 8 goals and 3 assists. For the sake of stability in his career Adu needs to be part of a strong finish to the season for Philly.
I never really understood this argument. Freddy has trained/played with more big clubs, more big coaches, seen A LOT MORE than your average MLS player in every way....and yet he is still tactically raw or naive? He has a huge library of experience in his head (or should) relative to almost every MLS player.
Sometimes the player (in this case, Adu) is just not very smart (in the soccer sense) and is unable to learn. It is what it is. Do we somehow think that playing under Hackworth is going to bring out Freddy's inner tactical genius? (who is Hackworth anyway? No one would consider him on par tactically with many of the European coaches Freddy 'tudored' under. Hackworth may be nice fellow and a good MLS coach, but he is really add to Freddy's tactical understanding at this point? Unlikely).
Freddy just makes poor decision still, and something just doesn't click with him when he comes to off-the-ball movement, defensive responsibilities, anticipating space in ambigious situations away from goal, etc.
The only REAL help that Philly will provide is that Freddy could finally just stay in the same place, playing, for more than a year. But he had this under Nowak over the last year (basically) and he didn't show a lot of improvement.
Here's the way Adu could probably shine the most short-term: in the former Valderamma role. In a under talented team like Philly, it might be worth the gamble for Hackworth to try putting several guys around Freddy to take off his defensive responsibilities, and let him focus solely on creating the final 1/3. Have the offensive constantly flow through him. I would tell Freddy to get much more aggressive to try to beat people and get his shot off.
Of course, this is risky strategy for Hackworth or any team- and Hackworth doesn't seem willing to do either but I think Freddy would have much better opportunity to shine by neo-focusing on his core strengths vs. trying to turn Adu into a modern 2 way player, which he struggles mightily with still. Maybe in this super offense role he could demonstrate his quality as a late game sub for USMNT.
As a 2 way player, there are still too many examples of Freddy simply not learning from his vast experience: The yellow card scissors tackle a few weeks back was simply bizarre. Why didn't something go off in his head to say, "hey wait a minute, this makes no sense' before he did it.
Yilmaz Orhan, who was a very good player back in MISL/NASL (could nail a bicycle kick)
said to me one time during a scrimmage game (as I bent over, catching my breath): "you are 18 years old, what is your problem...you should be able to run all day"
Yilmaz was right then, but he is especially right now. It is a disgrace if Freddy is not fit.
He is high paid professional for gds. If he isn't getting enough minutes in games, then
he has to get fit/stay fit, including reserve games.
We shouldn't have much expectation this will change. He's been a full professional for 9 years now. He prolly still has a window over the next season or so- but the dye is mostly cast now.
In terms of USMNT- it would send the worst possible signal to Adu to pick him before he can prove himself as a superior player in MLS.
When I was younger, I used to think the pro-freddy fanboys used to sound totally ridiculous...that was until i heard the modern day anti-freddy fanboys.
I wish the Nats had Pele....and Sir Bobby Charlton...and hell Sylvester Stallone in goal.
Good job by Adu tracking back on Montreal's 2nd goal
Did you watch Freddy tonight? Probably worst player on the pitch. Totally ineffective. Skied a wide open shot. He looked a neutered version of the player we saw years ago. He is small (so can't win anything in the air), he is one of slowest guys on the pitch (so this leads to a lot of back passes and square balls- he can't turn and run hard and beat defenders).
What remains for him are set pieces, and playing at a standstill and playing flat-footed balls on diagonals in traffic- which is a strength of his (playing short in tight spaces) but he is being outperformed constantly by lesser talented players because of his size, speed, speed of thought, movement and commitment are just not up to snuff...and increasingly, Freddy's touch is getting worse and he is stiffer player (less lateral movement, his body fakes are less effective) than when he was smaller, quicker.
He was at fault on Montreal's 2nd goal...he didn't anticipate a defender who came up during an outlet pass to him (and worse) he was too slow to react to that defender as he came near, and then blew by Freddy with the ball. Freddy doesn't have good recovery ability at all. Guys are too fast for him.
I keep telling you guys: He is getting worse. Slower, stiffer, and looks like he is practicing with ball less, because his touch in critical moments is not what it used to me.
There is no doubt why he got found out in Europe. The quality is his left foot (which is deteriorating) doesn't make up for all these other factors.
He needs major work. Lahoud ripped off a run that Freddy used to make, but doesn't make anymore. Even Valdes the center back made a nice run over 40 yards. Freddy's mojo and dynamic qualities- what made him special as a young player- are nowhere to be seen anymore.
People point to the Toronto game a while back as an example of Freddy's qualities: Most every player in MLS has had that type of game once or twice a season.
It is really hard to make the case that Freddy is anything but an average MLS player now.
He is a older, slower version of his former self .....and everyone mistakes this as 'more technical, more learned'.
You guys are crazy if you think he is going to get better with Hackworth playing like this, and with this Philly team.
If his $400,000 p.a. contract is up next season, I fully expect Philly to try to dump him again this offseason (like last spring). He is a $100,000- $150,000 player now. But he comes with major headaches. I don't know if many coaches will take him at that either. I don't think Freddy will be particularly motivated either.
I think there is a chance that he is totally out of soccer in 5 years. He has absolutely no chance of playing in any league in Europe except very slow, less technical leagues like 2nd division Turkey now.
pretty much, you summed it up.
Here comes the crew. Adu has a bad game and you can count on them to write 10 paragraphs of nonsense to prove their hatred for one player.
I just think Adu can't adjust to a style of play that is not his own. Should be interesting what happens to Adu when his contract is up. He will always have a place in the MLS but probably not as a DP.
He shouldn't be in the MLS. This league is nightmare for players who are skill and IQ oriented players. Gomez went to Mexico and when from a solid MLS player to a league top tier player. Adu needs to go to low tier La Liga club, Turk Liga, Mexico, Argentina, or Brazil. The MLS is a waste of time if you aren't size, pace, or athletic based.
Then why did he come back?
Adu should go to Mexico. I think he could do well there but they are less lenient over there. Here Adu has his reputation to fall back on but there, they don't care especially since he is American. Look what happened to Bornstein. A few bad games and now he never makes the bench.
I saw Adu at Dallas Cup when he was 14, and later at 15, 16 for the U-20s. He always roamed the field, didn't have a set position really (only one on the team)....but would rip off these runs with the ball or have 2 or 3 very dangerous shots on goal or passes that led to goals. He was faster than the field at that time. His combination of speed and ability to beat players by pass or dribbling made him extremely dangerous, impactful player.
Fast forward a couple years, and I saw Freddy vs. Guatamalan U-20s, and Freddy was doing a lot of the same movements, etc from before- but I noticed he had to strain a lot more to beat guys....literally most of the Guatamalan team was as fast or faster in footspeed and quick movements. Freddy had a bit more tactical sense, but still lagged. His ability to influence games was becoming less.
Now (years later), he just plays neutered most of the time. I guess he has learned *some* things, but he was never able to convert what made him special and integrate it with a stronger tactical sense. He basically gave up explosion and offensive creativity to become this stay at home, almost mid-30s in age player. Part of this is him putting on weight, but part of this is a mentality thing, and part of this is the rest of the field catching up to him.....and passing him.
You need to see Freddy in person to see how tiny he really is. He is at a big disadvantage physically. He has added a few cute flicks to his repetoire over time, but you see tonight how in the modern game where you get in situation in which your athleticism needs to bail you out. And Freddy often loses those situations (increasingly more). It is really disappointing to see how he can not go deep in the corner with the ball on anyone any more. He simply doesn't have the speed. How can you play a guy as a winger, but he can't take the ball in the corner and beat guys with speed? To me, that's a misplaced player.
I'm not really sure what his best position is any more. I am not saying he isn't talented, but he presents really headaches for any coach regarding where to play him, cover his weaknesses, and unleash his talents. You need to alter your entire formation to help him. You can't just slot him into any ol' lineup. Plus taking him on means baggage for your side. He is obviously NOT a quick learner. If I'm a coach, I take a pass every time. I don't expect Klinsmann to give him a call up except for Camp Cupcake. At this rate, Adu might not even get invited to that.
If Freddy has superior speed, this would be a different story. He would be an above average MLS player or more with superior speed. As mentioned, being undersized, slow, with a lack of tactical sense and commitment...that is a killer bad combination- no matter how good your one foot is.
No hatred here, just facts.
The problem is you can usually tell withing the first 10 minutes of a match whether Adu is going to "light it up" or do nothing and kind of sulk around. Adu hasn't lost anything touch or skill wise. If Adu makes a big skillful play in the beginning of the match, then you know hes going to get fired up and take people on all game, usually quite successfully. If he gets dispossessed or otherwise is uninvolved in the beginning of a match, it seems he decides hes having an "off day" and doesn't really do anything ambitious the rest of the match.
When hes playing for the US he always brings it all match regardless. It's a psychological thing.
Also I strongly disagree with the U-17-U-20 comparison, Adu was a lot more dominant at the U-20 level than at the U-17.
Freddy had a terrible shot today when he was wide open. In the past, he would have done much better. Above 3-4 games ago, Freddy had a chance to win or tie a game in Philly, and he poorly dragged a shot that was at a good angle and near goal. His touch is getting worse. At speed, he is not as good as before. He is becoming increasingly a flatfooted, dead ball player.
I think he *might* be able to get some of this back with dedication, but he simply is not as dynamic as years ago. Looks to me like is simply not putting in the extra, necessary work.
(Regarding U-17, U-20) Physically it has gotten tougher for him as he has gotten older. In earlier years, he made up for this with superior skill and savvy- but he has been caught and passed up as he started facing older players who were becoming stronger and faster as Freddy remained the same.
Freddy IS more skilled with his left foot than most MLS players, but he has all these other things to overcome which matter too.
Jergen advice. He was going to go to the La Liga for some low tier club or stay in Turkey and go to the Liga. Jergen wanted him back in the MLS to get PT but Jergen didn't understand the MLS to that degree. Jergen was just seeing Adu wasn't getting regular minutes in Europe outside of Turkey and felt it would be best to come home but the league isn't what it was in 2006. In 2006, this league was balanced, far less talented but balanced. Now it all about pace, size, and athletic ability. That's why the African and speedy South American do well here. Soccer IQ of the MLS drop tremendously and it wasn't nothing to brag about from 2000-2006 either. He never looked that good v. overall size and athleticism. The thing he does for the Union is provide someone who can take the pressure off of his teammates but if teams can force others to beat them and keep Adu from his spots, you can win that match-up.
The reason why Adu shines for the US is simple:
1. The US normally has better athletes than the other team 9 out of 10 times. On top of that, they normally have decent skill and solid soccer IQ.
2. The US players have trouble creating their own offense. Even Demps has some trouble doing it at times. Adu is an elite playmaker, he can do it in his sleep if the players he has know what they are doing at that level.
3. The US can cover for Adu's weaknesses and play to his strengths. Unless they have someone like Borestein, the US can generally defend well.
He hasn't lost anything. He is just as fast and quick as he's always been since he turned 18. Nothing is that different. The MLS just has really good athletes. They are normally poor marks normally but there team speed is amazing for any club in Europe. That's why you can't listen to anything the trolls say.
this has been undoubtably Freddy's best chance. We waited the entire time in europe saying he needs a team to hand him the reigns. Well, hes been handed the reigns. And like others have said i just dont see him being resigned for 400K. 100K-125K is probably his range if he wants to continue on in MLS. The big question is, which team takes him in?? MLS has got much.....much better over the past few years as anyone who has watched the league would agree. If im advising the guy, im telling him to take the pay cut Phili wants him to, because there is maybe one other team i can think of off the top of my head that could play to his strengths......and actually needs all the help it can get from a marketing standpoint; Chivas USA. I actually think itd be interesting seeing him play next to Sharlie if Phili did dump him. But looking across the MLS, those are the only two teams that cater to Adu......and hes starting for one. He should stay where he is and take the pay cut.
1. Juergen was named coach on July 29th, 2011. Freddy signed with Philly 2 weeks later.
Are we supposed to believe that (one of the first things) Juergen did was call Freddy and advise
him to immediately sign with the Union? I don't buy that at all + normally such things would take longer to develop. I think it was already in the works before Juergen.
2. There is no proof that Freddy actually had offers in La Liga or Turkey. Given Freddy's history, I think he took the most money and longest contract (which was Philly) which might have been his ONLY contract at the time.
3. What you are saying about MLS is total nonsense.
4. You can't pin all of Freddy's problems on athleticism. It is much deeper than that.
5. Incredible how you can spin his problem into 'the other teams are keying on him (which they aren't- they play him 1v1 or even leave him alone at times) and that his teammates are failing. In fact, it is Freddy's teammates who are actually producing and look more dangerous (and that's why the best movements for Philly didn't involve Freddy tonight) and why Freddy was one of the worst players and was subbed out. There is no grand conspiracy against Freddy, nor is he worth wasting more than one player if you are an opposing defense at this point. No one is keeping Freddy from 'getting to his spots'. He just isn't doing anything.
His best chance was to stay in Europe and pass on Jurgen who you would think knows better advice and sign to that small La Liga team. Playing in the MLS was a bad decision. Playing for the Union who have extremely low soccer IQ is a bad decision. Everything about this is a bad decision. I called this when it happened. I said this was a terrible move when it happened. The MLS was a god awful move. Adu is killing his career with stupidity. He should have never came to the MLS, this is not the same MLS he left. The league has completely changed. I called it then, I had arguments then and will have arguments now.
I just wish he can get out of his contract, watching him in the MLS is so painful. He is playing well generally speaking but he can't play his game in this league especially with this team, it's impossible.
supercooper, check your PM, mods said you don't need to talk to me and I don't need to talk to you. That's why I don't reply to any of your posts anymore.
And this is why I don't really like your font but that's why mods told me you not speak to you or Skevin.
That's what Freddy SAID, but that does not mean he had other firm offers at the time. He could have had an offer with the Union in hand for weeks...and hoped that something else was coming through. Of course, everyone spins that they have options, and no one wants to say "this was the only offer I had" , so you have not sufficiently proved your case that Adu had firm offers in hand from Turkey and La Liga, sorry.