well it's like chicken and eggs .... Serginho was the worst player in that team, well known and it's a fact. The team were already coping well with him for 20games (Zico, Socrates scoring many goals) ... What I meant was that Cerezo and Junior did cost the team dearly ... Platini, Zico, Baggio ... all missed a pk to win for their team in big games ...(Maradona also missed 1 pk at WC) so?
Serginho was a squad player up until the 82 world cup james...he made substitute appearances.. Reinaldo played in the qualfiers and careca was his deputy.. So brazil were not really used to having serginho as forward... They did not have to cope with him as they had better options.. Even socrates played as centre forward in a few games before the world cup
not really, Serginho was playing for Brazil NT from 81 to WC82 with 10games and scored 5goals (before WC82 ) Reinaldo and Serginho was in turn as main striker for the team. Carreca was a young sub. Careca was ponly becoming main striker for Brazil after that WC82 failure. He never played (real) games for Brazil before WC82
Yes really !! .. Serginho started 9 games for brazil in his career .. 1 was a world cup qualifier in which he was subbed 3 were friendlies and the other 5 were in the world cup itself.... Careca - although young was pretty much how he was in 1986. he had lead guarani to glory and was seen as the next great brazilian goalscorer.. Serginho if i remember rightly scored 2 goals against ireland ( both headers) and another in a friendly before the world cup.. For the selecao In 1982 serginho scored a total of 5 goals ( 2 in the world cup ) and in 1981 he got 3 ... He made his national team debut in 1979 and scored a total of 8 goals in 20 games.. He was a great goalscorer at club level but for the selecao he was woeful in all the games he played ( and i ve seen em all) .. A bit like Dada from atletico in the 70s... Brazil were not comfortable with serginho up front.. He was a last resort in an era lacking great forwards for brazil.. There was reinaldo - injury prone and outspoken ..careca - injured a few days before the world cup and roberto dinamite- lacking fitness and form..
I agree, they were outstanding players, cracks, so technical that looks like watching a dance with a ball. There are teams that didn´t win the World Cup but are unforgatebal. Who doesn´t know about Hungria of Puskas and Holand (Netherland) in 1974? Who doesn´t Know about Brazil 1982? There are times, the team is so good, that even if it is to the team you suport, you appreciate it very much, if you love football and go to see them, see their videos. Aprecciate a good team or a good player looks like tasting a good wine, if you love it. If you don´t follow the Brazilian football, you- perhaps- should appreciate some player and teams that are unforgetful in the country, I guess (youtube): 1- Santos of Pelé;2 - Botafogo of Garrincha; 3 - Cruzeiro of Tostão; 4 - Vasco in the 40 (?); 5 - Palmeiras of 96 6 - Internacional of Falcão 7 - Corinthians of Baltazar and Gilmar (?); 8 - Flamengo of Zico; 9 - Vasco of Juninho; 10 - São Paulo of Raí. 11- Palmeiras and Vaco of Edumundo (animal); 12- Neymar of Santos in 2010/2011 13- Brazilian Team in South America Football under-20( sub-20) championship in 2011 - 25th competition with some players like Neymar and Oscar playing 14- Dener of Portuguesa and Vasco( he passed away very young in a car crash). There are great moments of Pelé and Garrincha in DVD or even in internet ( like the others teams and players). There is also a film based on Heleno ( great player of Botafogo in the 1940s) with actor Rodrigo Santoro, besides Brazilian games of 1970 and 1982 by Fifa. Falcão also wrote a book about 1982 team. There are books about Zico. There are also art photo books about football in Brazil (as there are about football all over the world, for sure). Cheers!
huh? while I agree with your writing but do not get what you meant in "You tube" and all the clubs with number in front??? what do they mean or your message? I said Zico, Socrates and Falcao deserved a WC title in 82 (by their standard and performance) but too bad they did not have ...
Well, the numbers is not a sequence or order ,nothing special, just a way I chose to organize what I was writing. I put youtube in the wrong place, sorry, I meant that it is easy to check the many images nowadays in the internet, specially in youtube site. I agreed thats a pity that some great football players didn´t get a World Cup. Then I remembered other great national teams that didn´t get either. ( another post I added name of great goalkeepers). And as I was talking about great football, I continuos remembering great teams and players in Brazilian soccer/football that got or not some prize, but, anyway, played great football throught the time. Just it.
..and also there was a very good player at flamengo named tita who santana asked to play at centre forward - but tita refused ! ..he was more of an attacking midfielder than a forward but did play up front or out wide for flamengo.. He took over the number 10 shirt for flamengo when zico left for udinese... So santana clearly didnt rate serginho that much...
not really, Tita was always a FW, mostly playing wide. Tita was more like a FW in the mould of Podolski , Dir Kuit Serginho was a better striker - in the mould of classic scoring #9 like Vieiri, Alan Shearer .... This is best XI of Flamengo: 4 3 2 1 (or sometimes 4 1 2 3) Nunes was the main striker, Tita and Lico were both wide man Zico was CAM/Playmaker Adilio was CM Andrade was DM
Hello james.. I dont know if you ever watched flamengo in the 80s or if you followed brazilian football from 1980-82 and i dont know if you are just getting information from google.. but tita started out as an attacking midfielder and was forced to play out wide because Zico was the AM..tita sometimes played alongside nunes up front and indeed became a forward later in the 80s.. He was in the 1990 world cup squad as a forward but because he could also play midfield.. He was nothing like podolski or the others you mentioned..he was a very good player and in his own opinion he was best in midfield and didnt want to play out of position for santana at espana 82 ..he took Zicos place when zico went to udinese.. But my point is- santana knew that serginho wasnt good enough at international level.. He was looking for other options..thats why he tried socrates at centre forward a few times and was looking at tita to play up front.. Tita was more like a right midfielder and if you remember isidoro was the first choice right midfielder before falcao came into the team - then brazil played without a right sided midfielder at the world cup.. Many thought that tita should have been in the squad..as i ve said before..serginho was a good goalscorer at club level but a last resort at international level
Agree, but I would say Socrates was the right mid for Brazil at WC82, with Eder on the left, and Zico as mediapunta and horrible Serginho as striker. Cerezo and Falcao were the center midfield duo.
i know what you are saying mate.. Socrates was often seen on the right side in 1982 but it wasnt a fixed position for him.. There was alot of talk in brazil at the time that santana wasnt playing with a recognised right sided player in the first match against ussr.. He had dropped isidoro and for some reason he opted for an out of sorts Dirceu in his place.. Because cerezo missed the ussr match through suspension , santana played falcao in his place and falcao was too good to drop for the next game against scotland.. So santana played falcao and cerezo together in the scotland game and isidoro and dirceu were left on the bench.. In my opinion brazil were more balanced with isidoro on the right.. When isidoro came on for dirceu at half time in the ussr match brazil were a different team in the second half.. But they still persisted with serginho up front..god knows why ?!! Everytime serginho was subbed brazil looked an even better team when isidoro came on and zico or socrates pushed up...
Well ... not really Brazil82 played 4 2 2 2 with Serginho as CF, and Eder was left winger/FW Both Zico and Socrates were "tresquartista" behind the 2 FW like this However, in some games, you are right (or one might seen it) that Zico often played/positioned into middle (CAM ) as his usual role , that pushed Socrates to the right a bit ... but in same situation, Falcao had "room" to moved up on the left side of Zico ....and it looked like 3 2 3 2 formation (DIAGONAL LEFT) like below Eder ------------Serginho -------- ------ Falcao ---Zico ------Socrates - Junior ---------- Cerezo ---------------- ---------Oscar ----Luizinho -----Leandro ----------------- Waldir --------------------
i see what you mean james but my point was that the brazilian media were almost mocking santana because he was selecting a team without a right midfielder or right winger. I suppose you could say socrates played on the right on occassion but he drifted everywhere .. some people in brazil wanted isidoro in the starting line up
Against USSR it was the first match, how could Cerezo have been suspended? By the way, Paulo Isidoro came in for Serginho in the match against Italy right after the 2-2, but he was poor and five minutes later Rossi scored the last goal of the match.
yes ... that team was playing 4 2 2 2 or "quasi-4 2 4 Diagonal LEFT" Heavy attacking on the left ( Eder, Junior and Falcao) with partial on right from Leandro and socrates/ and that is similar case to Brazil WC50. Note that Brazil 62-70 were heavly attacking from the right (with Garrincha/D Santos, to Jaizinho, Carlos alberto) while both Zagallo and rivelino were "fake left winger" - as opposite to 82 ======================= See my post in other post for details ... "Brief history of tactics " thread
cerezo was sent off in a qualifying game mate.. So he missed the opening game against the ussr.. And santana changed the formation at 2-2 .. Pushed socrates up front and put isidoro on the right..
Yes, I agree, Santana made that change, that had usually worked in giving new energy to the team but did not against Italy.
isidoro didnt really have time to get into the game.. Before brazil had equalised to make it 2-2 -isidoro was already warming up and i think santana should have left things how they were by keeping socrates in midfield..
wait a minute.... Italy beat Brazil, Argentina and Germany to win that world cup.... Are some of you implying that they got lucky every time? They scored a total of 8 goals and conceded 3 vs those 3 super teams, how is that defensive football? I think for all Italy has done in world cups they are very unappreciated, 4 titles in 6 finals is nothing to sneeze at.
quote="DIECI, post: 29968375, member: 47904"]wait a minute.... Italy beat Brazil, Argentina and Germany to win that world cup.... Are some of you implying that they got lucky every time? They scored a total of 8 goals and conceded 3 vs those 3 super teams, how is that defensive football? I think for all Italy has done in world cups they are very unappreciated, 4 titles in 6 finals is nothing to sneeze at.[/quote] no i am not implying italy got lucky at all.. Read my other posts.. Brazil were sloppy and italy punished them ..thats not luck ..brazil were a better team but italy beat em on the day
definitely they were lucky enough to beat the mighty Brazil (2 goals mistakes by their own DF) and Rossi capitalized 3goals/3chances (whole game) but overall, Italy82 were deserved a WC winner and surely among the very top teams (especially defense to GK) to ever win a WC in history
Agree with your post, plus they beat a superb Poland on route to their championship. One correction, Italy gave up four goals to Argentina (1), Brazil (2) and Germany (1) combined.