Yeah its all Israels fault for everything. Every possible human right? Really? Lets not be over dramatic now shall we. And while Israel is certainly guilty of many things, its also a 2 way street and it is past time that you turn that same critical eye towards the arab states that currently house Palestinians in their "camps" and look at how they are treated and forced to live in overcrowded space with limits on movement and such. Well North America wasn't Europes to begin with now was it? A more accurate statement would be if Europe set aside land from the US and gave it back to the people who lived here in the first place, like what happened with Israel and the Jews since they were from that region and forced out.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/25/israel-army-white-phosphorous_n_3157604.html Israel use of white phosphorus has been deemed ILLEGAL and as a war crime by the UN, amnesty international and a host of 3rd party multinational organizations. Israel itself has banned its use of white phosphorus in civilian areas after being called out on it during the Gaza War. Maybe it should be you not I who needs to do some research on this matter. Stop this "drive into the sea" victim hood mentality. Nobody is driving the best military in the ME who has dozens of Nuclear weapons into the sea. Arab nations surrounded them are far from "genocidal" all the nations besides from Syria have bent over backwards for Israel and have taken it out the rear for Israel hardly genocidal lol. Why should Israel be defined as a Jewish state why the exclusivity. How are Muslims and Christians are suppose to feel in Israel with it being a Jewish state? Are they to be regulated as 2nd class citizens.... Zionism is racism pure and simple.
Has israel officially changed its name to the Jewish State of israel? If not, why not? Which other country asks for recognition of its supposed values, as opposed to its official name? What next, is Kim going to demand that he's not making peace with South Korea unless the treaty refers to him as Supreme Leader and Shining Sun? Will America refuse to negotiate with the Taliban unless they recognise it as Land Of The Free And Home Of The Brave? The israelis must think everyone is too stupid to see through their stalling tactics. Obviously some people ARE too stupid (some in this very thread I presume) but most people are sensible enough to see that the israelis aren't going to stop the Occupation until their time comes.
Wow, from the very start of Israel recreation the arab states have waged war upon Israel with the intent of driving them into the sea. Are you saying this isn't true? Does it not state specifically in hamas own charter that they seek the complete destruction of Israel? None of the arab states have ever bent over backwards for Israel, the fact is they were beaten into submission in the multiple wars they waged upon the Jewish Nation. As for your question about muslims and Christians in Israel, I bet they will feel safer and better then Jews and Christians in any arab state, especially Saudi Arabia. If I ever go there I will be sure to leave my Bible at home... Like I said, WP and RP are used for illumination as a smoke screen. Watch when the fighting starts in Ukraine, you will see both sides using WP extensivly. It has been used in every war since Korea. Russia used it in Georgia. Anyone who ever served in the military knows this.
When the arab people start loving their children more then they hate Israel then perhaps they will be ready for peace.
Of course we all know the underlying reason for the oppostion to Israel. They can't allow a non-muslim state on what they consider muslim lands. It wouldn't matter where in the ME you put Israel, the arab states would be opposed to it simply because it wouldn't be a muslim state.
The driving into the sea is just a talking point that I have already shredded apart you repeating it doesn't make it any more true it's a ridiculous. Egypt bent over backward since 77 Jordan since the late 80s, morocco, Tunisia and even the gulf states don't raise any real objections to Israel abuses which basically means they approve of it. I agree Israel treats it's non-Jewish citizens like shit and Arab states treat their non-Muslims citizens like shit but let me guess your still going to defend the Israelis right??? Isreal use of WP bombs in civilian areas were deemed illegal were you too dense to understand that from the article or to you wish to ignore the many crimes committed by the apartheid state that is Israel. But Israel is use to doing illegal things so I guess you can easily overlook it.
Or when Israel freezes and dismantles all settlements and accepts the 1967 green line as the rightfully borders of their state. Until then they will never get peace.
Or maybe just maybe it's because they stole land that was not their to begin with! They should've created a state in Europe for them post-ww2 you know that's were they lived and were persecuted and almost were exterminated,that would seem fair....
I've read the Hamas Charter, a few times actually. Are you going to tell me that the specific comments about Israel and Jews are being taken out of context? If so, please elaborate as to what was really intended. That best military is the only reason that Israel still exists to this day, that and the support of the US. Make no mistake that if Israel were to lose that support and technical/tactical might it would cease to exist in short order. I shudder to think how any remaining Jews would be treated. The extremist element within Islam has gotten way too powerful and it's a ********ing tragedy to be frank.
Whomcares about the Hamas charter does it matter it's completely irrelevant to the conversation we might as well look at the ideology of the Jewish home party in Israel if you want to look at political charters that are nonsense. Israel only exist as a top military because of the US with no reason of their own. Why do Israel supporters think Palestinians want to wipe out the Jews?? The only people being confined in concentration camps is the Palestinians treated like prisoners in their own land. The hate unfortunately that has been engendered amongst some Muslims against Israelis is because if what they have done to them in the past 65 years and resentment from this ill treatment. Historically Muslims have had no problems with Jews. It was the Europeans and Christians who used the European Jews as their punching bag for more then a millennium.
Have you read the Likud Charter? http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/netan...jects-establishment-of-palestinian-state.html The difference between Hamas and Likud is that Likud are actually implementing their charter. Jewish extremist is objectively far more dangerous than Islamic extremism in the Holy Land.
It isn't irrelevant to the conversation though. Hamas carries a big influence in Palestinian politics and don't pretend it doesn't. Now instead of deflecting how about answering my question about the specific wording with regards to Jews and Israel? Calling me an Israel supporter is a stretch if you're basing it off the fact I was raised a Jew. I may see the concept of an Israel as a fantastic thing but I deplore what it has become. I don't completely blame Israel for the way it is but I also don't see it as any different than any of the other ********ed up countries in that region. I've said it before and I'll say it again, one big natural disaster and start from scratch for the Middle East. Oh and it's not just the Palestinians that would prefer for Israel to not exist. Yes but all your posts are directed towards Israels behavior and you refuse to give any say towards the Arab/Islamic countries that do far worse...brotherhood my ass. Your reluctance to spread your vitriol towards all of the Palestinians oppressors speaks volumes for your true colors. The past 65 years were completely avoidable if Arab countries didn't try to invade Israel in the first place. True about Muslims and Jews through history but unfortunately fanaticism from both sides shit that down the bowl. As far as Europe's behavior towards the Jews and even the Romani is most certainly worthy of having some serious vitriol towards them. Of course that would be proper in the appropriate thread which this isn't so try not to deflect.
I haven't defended Likud but I also refuse to accept that the blame of this whole mess lay exclusively at the feet of Israel. A lot could have been differently decades ago that may have changed the course of history. In the end neither side had a high road.
I have put Arab governments through the shredder I think very lowly of them. Most are just as bad as Israel. Hamas are a unfortunate political party and movement. They are a physical creation of Israel which is now biting them in the ass. Hamas popularity stems from isreal heavy handed polices which have driven the people into the only legitimate (in their eyes) resistance to Israeli aggression. Is Hamas charter extreme yes is it counterproductive yes but to me it's just a scream of resentment from 65 years of hurt and mistreatment irrelevant because the goals are unattainable. Until Israel pays for its crime in land and ceases and desist they will forever be the villain in this conflict.
The whole "both sides are equally at fault " is such a bs cope out. Have both sides made mistakes of course but the mistakes, aggression and oppression is so heavily committed by isreal that it's not even up for discussion.
Jews and Muslims lived together in peaceful coexistence in holy the land, before European Zionist settlers came and displaced the Palestinians via terrorism. Palestinians are historically not known for violence and terror. They were peaceful and actually quite a benign people that raised crops and olive-trees. They didnt even have a national army. This was the great mistake on their part actually, for which they are paying the price right now. Maybe if they had an army they would have been able to resist the agression and the unjust anomaly called Israel would not have happened. Although history has a funny way of correcting anomalies.
No, they lived peacefully after conquest by Muslims over the region and only so long as Jews were kept in their place meaning they could not be in charge of their own destiny. And it wasn't Jews who kept Palestine from becoming a nation. Israel accepted the UN resolution in 47 to create 2 nations. Go ask Jordan, Syria, and Egypt what happened to the land that was supposed to goto Palestine. Nobody cared or wanted a state for Palestine, they only wanted to make sure Israel didn't come into existence again and did all they could to try and destroy them. Failing miserably every time.
Jews kept into their place in ottoman controlled Palestine ? what are you smoking dude... The Jews of Palestine pre-WW1 were such a small and irrelevant amount of the population that they were hardly viewed as any form of threat. They were treated as equals and were well integrated members of the country. Not until the idea of an exclusive idea of a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine came about in 1917 when the made up less then a quarter of the population did a backlash begin. Then European zionists settlers and immigrants brought there aggression to Palestine which spilt the communities apart. Funny how you like to cite the only one UN resolution yet ignore the dozens of other UN resolutions that Israel has broken or is in complete violation of. If I could remember correctly Israel stole all the land proper of the mandate of Palestine included the area allotted to a Palestinian state in the partition. Then they massacred whole Palestinian villages, removed or terrorized Palestinians who were forced to leave their to flee homes. Why didn't the Jewish people post ww2 get a state In Europe? You keep saying how Arabs try to wipe them out or commit genocide on them yet it was Europeans Christians who have been shitting on the Jews for over a millennium. you should read up on history when the Jews of Europe were expelled from England, France and Spain in the Middle Ages they would seek refuge and safety in the Islamic world and were accepted as "people of the book". But oh yea I forgot we can't steal land from European Christians we have to steal it from those brown people with an alien religion that makes sense!
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.587237 Now it must be increasingly clear to people that israel is not interested in peace with the Palestinians.
So let's wait up whether Hamas is suddenly interested after the surprising "unity deal" with Fatah. The extremists on both sides will try anything to avoid a co-existence of a Jewish and Palestinian state ... so I don't have the illusion of a peace treaty anymore.