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Discussion in 'International News' started by JBigjake, Nov 20, 2012.
And yet you continue to support the policy that leads directly to those deaths.
Didnt mean you specifically. I spoke more in a general sense.
...Whilst blaming Hamas for their deaths. Well, nows the time to blame the israelis for their civilian deaths.
I blamed IAF for the death of the civilians, especially that family whose building was destroyed and 11 members were killed. I said specifically, IAF fcuked up and blamed them outright. I did say that Hamas is profiting from that as well.
I support Israel's right to defend themselves from these terrorists. Big difference. If anything I think the US should be selling them Reaper drones with hellfire missiles that are more accurate, can stay over gaza far longer and has a reduced collateral damage ration then the missiles being fired from F-16's.
As usual you only put part of what I said in your ignorant statement. Go back and read for yourself what I actually stated instead of offering a half-truth which is still a lie.
They are to blame as it is Israel's job to protect her civilians. They are not doing enough to prevent that.
Sure, as soon as IDF starts firing missiles from a Tel-Aviv cafe.
No matter what side your on this is awful there has to be some give and take on both sides not this all or nothing.
Don't you love the crocadile tears umar sheds for dead hamas terrorists, but is ok with bombing a civlian bus in Israel?
Beyond this forum. Btw i havent seen that much condemnation, at least it has not been strong enough. Maybe there have been few words of regret just for the sake of it, but thats pretty superficial.
So its my understanding that you condemn the Israeli militarys war- crime
Umar to Hamas is what IM is to the mullahs in Iran. At least they are consistent.
Do you support my right to shoot you in the face if you throw a rock at me from 100 ft away?
No, it makes sense to throw a rock back
Oh....so it's beyond this forum now......well, ok, somehow that wasn't so clear in your post.
Condemnation from? You got to be a bit more specific. I mean you must have newspapers from at least 2/3 of the world.
Your understanding is false. I regret the civilian deaths on the Palestinian side due to how Hamas engages in this war. I also condemn Israeli's killings of civilians. I also wish IDF could do a better job avoiding the tragic loss of life of innocent bystanders. The only war crimes here are from Hamas.
Firstly we don't know if they were civilians. Secondly, the bus was outside the military headquarters in Tel Aviv at the time. Why would the israelis mix their civilians with the military in such a way? Clearly they have blood on their hands with this sort of behaviour.
Shoe's now on the other foot and all of a sudden you don't like your own arguments.
And IDF. Both are guilty of war crimes.
Glad we have solved this pointless argument.
As shown in Pakistan and Yemen, those drones have an unacceptable results in the form of deaths of too many civilians. Drone are shit imo, they dont work very well.
It IS different, in many respects and only an idiot would try and pretend they're exactly the same.
But I'd contend there are enough similarities to make the lessons we had to learn, (often painful ones at that ), valuable to others.
I dare say, if I trawled around the t'internets long enough I'd find something saying 'Oh, but blah, blah, blah' explaining how it's not true and, even if it was, it was all perfectly reasonable anyway for some other half-baked reason. But NO explanation can be deemed sufficient for some of the acts our armed forces carried out.
The actions also corrupted almost out entire intelligence service as was seen by the clockwork orange operation and it's aftermath
Wallace resigned from the Civil Service in 1975 in order to avoid disciplinary action, ostensibly for privately briefing journalists with classified information. Wallace always claimed that this action was consistent with his secret job duties as a member of the Intelligence Services and that the real reasons for his dismissal were related to his refusal to continue working on the 'Clockwork Orange' project in October 1974 and his investigation of a child abuse scandal at the Kincora boy's home, which he claims was blocked because the leading perpetrator was both a leading member of a loyalist paramilitary group and an undercover agent for MI5.
In the 1980s, however, Wallace produced some documents, including a series of handwritten notes by himself, which he claimed were taken at meetings with other members of the plot, including the Member of Parliament Airey Neave. The notes were later subjected to an independent forensic analysis by Dr Julius Grant, and the results were consistent with the notes having been made contemporaneously during the 1970s.
As you know, Neave was blown up by the IRA afterwards... in the early 80's IIRC
My point is that this type of action corrupts ALL aspects of a civilised society. There will be no area that won't suffer the adverse effects of the militarisation of the Israeli society.
Of course, as you may remember, my leftie political leanings meant I was dead against the conservative and unionist parties actions in NI although, having said that, the labour party continued them in some regards when they got power.. yet ANOTHER way they abandoned their principles IMO The thing is it's quite hard for ANY politician to say they'll reduce the countries influence and power without being accused of a lack of patriotism. That's the same cry we hear from right-wing politicians in Israel... that's why many of the arguments sound so familiar to an old codger like me.
Trust an American to think the answer to the Arab/Israeli conflict was more weapons
If Hamas did not exist, Israel would have to invent it. The Hamas rockets relieve any pressure on Israel to achieve a reasonable comprehensive settlement. Instead, Israel can keep the status quo in place and actually improve its position by establishing new "facts" on the ground in the West Bank. I view the rocket attacks as asysmmetric warfare. But they are ineffective asymmetric warefare - the rockets attacks to not do enough damage to put pressue on Israel. Rather, they simply strengthen the hand of hardline Israelis.