I know you posted it before. What I don't get, is Saudi Arabia literally so holy that no muslim is allowed to set foot there ever? Plundering its riches? It would seem that the House of Saud is doing just fine. Dictating to its rulers? Again, I don't see this. Humiliating its people? All of this sounds like an indictment of the Saudi leadership. Terrorizing its neighbors I'll grudgingly acknowledge and the spearhead comment at least is sort of justified. Not that I agree with it but whatever. Again, I don't get this whole idea that the leaders of these countries are against us but can't do anything. The Saudis were more than happy to have the US protect their oil fields and Kuwait's leadership is indebted to us for still existing.
There is a big difference between the views of the leadership and the people when it comes to the benefits of alliance with the US. The leaders are very pro-US. The people, not so much. Regarding the presence of troops in the Hijaz, the traditional view is that foreigners are welcome outside of Makkah and Madinah, but only as guests. Coming in and building military bases in the Hijaz is waaay different. P.S. The Saudi's justify their position by using Surah 9 Ayah 28: Obviously there are differences of opinion on this, but although I don't think it is prohibited in scripture for all other faiths to come to the two cities, I personally prefer that non-Muslims do not visit Makkah and Madinah.
Right but they are proclaiming the leadership to be helpless in the face of the US. And you didn't answer my question about Saudi Arabia being so holy that no outsiders can set foot there.
Bin Laden himself was close to the ruling elite, and probably believed that they were being forced to comply with US demands. I don't know how much contact he had with the core of the royal family, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lower level royals and other hangers-on aren't very pro-US themselves.
Eventually he was bound to anger someone too much: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...d_in_palestinian_refugee_camp_hamas_memb.html Meanwhile ... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...mas_executes_two_suspected_israeli_spies.html
yet u muslims can live wherever the fu(k u want, plus we have to greet u with arms wide open and respect ur culture.....right? ohhhh Jesus, the hypocrisy...!
To be honest what business would non muslims have in Makkah and Madinah? Its a personal place of worship and where our pilgrimage is performed, i guess you don't have a reason and you just decided to in your moment of flurry try and generalise a religion on their decision to sustain their holy place where no one apart from Muslims belong. Not as if Muslims don't respect other's cultures we have a saying 'akum dinukum waliyadin' losely translated we have our religion and you have yours.
Back on the news: Hamas or another wonderful faction there targets a friggin SCHOOL BUS. Thankfully, it had already dropped off the kids. Nice... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053704,00.html A school bus! Cowards!
Not that I would visit one place or the other anytime soon, but according to your logic, should the Vatican prohibit Muslims, Jews, and Hindhus from stepping inside St. Peters?
If they did, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. I'm pretty certain there are plenty of restrictions around the World which seem harsh, but are designed to maintain the sacred nature of a place of worship. It's not as if we hold a massive secret stash of goodies there or something - the only things that we do there which are different from anywhere else in the world are acts of worship. The rest of the city is the same as anywhere else in the world. If non-Muslims want to join in such acts of worship, they can always become Muslims.
And if these properties are considered "private", that's fine by me, but it sets an awful precedent. I'd hate to live in a world where my religious status, race, gender, etc.... would prohibit me from visiting historical sites that meant so much to World history. If I was able to visit mosques in Turkey and Egypt, I don't see why Meccah should be any different.
You are welcome to visit mosques, but Makka is not just a mosque, the area is considered sacrosanct. Initially pagans were banned from it because they used to circumambulate naked around it. I'm sure if everyone was allowed to go there, there would be a minority who would end up doing something blasphemous (whether intentionally or not). And like I said, the only things that go on there apart from the usual stuff in any other city is sacred rites of worship. What need is there for people to go there, except to worship? I personally am against even Muslims going there if their only intention is to sight-see.
That's all fine, but it begs a question. Jews allow non-Jews to visit The Wailing/Western Wall, Catholics allow Muslims to visit the Vatican, Christians can visit Bodhgaya.....you get the point. Why is it different for holy places in Islam?
i didn't knew we haved concentration camps in Venezuela...i'm shocked..!!! =O we the people of the western world, in my case i'm talking about Venezuelan people, more than a million arab/muslims living here, including Saudis...and dont worry Umar i cant be more stupid than u are already...! i didn't knew Mecca and Medina were mosques instead of cities....what if a person working in Saudi Arabia oil fields likes the country and decides to stay and wants to live in Mecca....does he or does he not haves the same rights to do it, just like a muslim who comes to the western world and decides to live in ANY city he wants, like millions of u have already done?
Ah, so people in Venezuela are Western "We's",whereas people in the UK are non-Western "You's"? I see your reasoning. Just say a Muslim wants to go to israel and live there (maybe he wants to go back to his grandparents house where his family lived before the creation of israel). Can he do so freely, to the same extent as a Jewish person, like millions of Jews have already done?
aren't u Egyptian? anyways this proves my point, ur living in England so why cant a catholic englishman live in Saudi? if he marries an Israeli girl sure he can....just ask the more than 30,000 Egyptian dudes or should i say ur countrymen who are living in Israel as we speak, who went to Israel lived there, married local girls and are now Israelies....
Nope, not Egyptian. A Catholic Englishman can live in Saudi, plenty of them do. I've even met plenty of Englishmen in the Two Cities, who were living there and studying too. Those guys converted, though. It's probably easier than getting married to a Jewish woman (no need to do all those tests!). Palestinians who used to own land in israel before they were stripped of their rights during the creation of israel will never have the same rights in modern-day israel as Jews do, marriage or no marriage.
then my money is on Pakistani..! ahhhh but they converted to Islam, if any muslim converted to judaism he could move to Israel as well without any problems... well arab jews used to own land in their countries before they where kicked out by their own countrymen just cause there where jews, they where stripped of their rights and lost EVERYTHING, will never have the same rights as their countrymen (they actually never did), heck i bet they cant even go back and live in their places of birth...so whats ur point?
There are parts of the Vatican that you can only go into if you are Catholic. Yes it is only one room, but they still do it.