Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent

Technically, no. Orthodox Jews have a process for allowing non-Jews to join the community. If they get circumcised and vow to follow all laws of Jewish worship and all that, then they join but they are not considered fully Jewish. Their children, however, are accepted as Jewish.

The Conservative and Reform movements do accept converts as being "fully Jewish." So most Jews in America are cool with conversion to Judaism. But Israeli policy is based on Orthodox Judaism, so I'm not sure if they'd accept a convert as fully Jewish. Maybe someone who knows more about that can say.

 

All Christians are descended from Jews?

 

So, no.

 

Thank you for the honest and comprehensive reply. It goes a long way toward explaining why the Ethiopians --IF they were first-gen converts-- were given the birth control. This is looking every bit as ugly as I first thought it might be.

 

Is there a reason you think the Ethiopians in this case might be first gen converts? I thought they were Beta Israel -- Ethiopian Jews who have been determined by Israel's rabbinic court to be Jewish & entitled to right of return.

EDIT - I looked back at the article. The women in this case are Beta Israel/Ethiopian Jews. They are, by rabbinic decree, recognized as Jewish and entitled to right of return. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jews_in_Israel)

When Netanyahu spoke about African immigrants threatening the identity of the Jewish state, he was referring to a recent wave of illegal immigration mostly from Eritrea and Sudan. Those folks were given refugee status in Israel, and are not Jewish as far as I know. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/20/israel-netanyahu-african-immigrants-jewish)

So it sure looks like longstanding difficulties in incorporating Beta Israel immigrants into Israeli society (due largely to racism and Eurocentrism) has become conflated with the problems arising from the presence of many African refugees (who are of course poor and can't be employed). From the point-of-view of a racist right-wing Israeli, I'm sure they all look the same and are equally a drain on society.

So this particular issue, the forced birth control, isn't related to who is considered Jewish and who isn't. It's just flat-out racism. You welcome thousands of Jewish immigrants from Ethiopia, but do little to help them adjust to your society and nothing to adjust your society to accommodate them. Then you become concerned because they aren't assimilating quickly enough, and are remaining poor while at the same time frighteningly dark-skinned and culturally different. So you go ahead and give them birth control, because they're already poor and are having too many babies, so it's for their own good.

 

You know, you could stand to not make declarative pejorative statement when you clearly know nothing of the issues.

What's the Ethiopian problem?

If you've seen any of my posts that are partial to Russia, you'd be the first.

Then what's the tapdancing about?

Because there are racists in Israel?

You're right, there must be plenty of groups in other religions like "Jews for Jesus". Like............oh, there aren't any? Really? You mean Jews are distinct in this regard? No way!

This isn't a question of Jewishness. After its formation Israel also had a divide between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews, to the point that some political parties represented those specific groups. Israelis are by no means immune from prejudice and intolerance - but it doesn't mean they don't consider each other Jews.

 

They're not first generation converts. The simple answer is that some Israelis are racists. That's all there is to it.

 

No, it's not. It's uncategorically reprehensible and I disagree with the Israeli government on a lot of things, but this doesn't come close to a meeting of every major government agency to put together a plan approved by the head of the government exterminate an entire group of people.

 

This rather reminds me of when I visited Northern Ireland in the 70's. It was the day after catholic prisoners had escaped from the Crumlin Road jail and the protestants were rioting, overturning cars and setting fire to them. We were being driven in a car that came to a T-junction, looked right, (the way we wanted to go), and saw a huge crowd coming towards us.

"If we're stopped tell them you're a protestant" the driver said.

"I'm an atheist" I replied.

He thought about this for a minute.

"Well, tell them you're a protestant atheist"

This sums up the nub of the problem for me. If we can define ourselves as being anything we want then why should others take our wishes seriously. Particularly a 'right of return' somewhere for us whilst denying the very same thing to others whose claim, in many instances, is vastly superior.

This latest issue, of people's 'Jewishness' being denied on the basis they're black, (that's how it appears from the actions of the current Israeli administration, anyway), is just the latest manifestation of that basic problem.

 

The "not all Zionists are Jews" canard is an attempt by anti-semites not to sound anti-semitic. (THAT is a semantic argument, by the way.) Some non-Jews support some aspects of Zionism, but they're not Zionists.

Because it's not denoting one or the other, it's denoting both. The question of what is a Jew is not a semantic argument, it's far more complicated than that.

 

No one's Jewishness is being denied.

 

The use of science is not the same thing as cold blooded scientific cynicism. It's just racism, pure and simple.

 

Yeah, that was true in 33 AD.

 

There are racists in pretty much every European-influenced nation and, I'm sure, some that aren't European-influenced. If this birth control program was state-approved, then it goes well beyond reflecting on "some Israelis" and begins to reflect on Israel, period.

 

This is not what's occurring.

I edited post #132 to clarify what's going on.

 

No, I literally do not understand what you're talking about.

Some Israelis controlling some of Israel's public policy are racists, yes. I have no doubt of that, and of course this reflects badly on Israel; it should. My point wasn't to suggest it shouldn't.
However, it was Israeli policy to bring the Ethiopians to Israel in the first place. As demosthenes pointed out, Israel was quite active in seeking to "liberate" this group of people and bring them to Israel. The notion that it is now Israel's official government objective to destroy their population would make little sense.

I'll also note that the racism issue in Israel isn't new, but it has been particularly central recently in relation to non-Jewish refugees who have fled to Israel from places like Darfur, etc.

 

I'm afraid you see a difference where none exists.

There are no degrees of dehumanization- once I decide that someone is lesser than myself, it doesn't matter whether I allow them to exist in relative comfort or slay them like a goat. The voices of those who are happy just to be alive can be ignored for the purpose of this discussion.

Demosthenes, I see your edit. Thanks.

 

Well, that's quite clearly a part of it and maybe a very large part but I'm not sure it's the whole story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jews_in_Israel#The_adaptation_of_the_religious_leadership

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Many Haredim (ultra orthodox) still do not recognize the Beta Israel community as Jews or even Israelites (the tribe of Dan, according to one of the origin versions of Beta Israel community), not just those from the Falash Mura Christian community.​

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The Chief Rabbinate of Israel has always doubted the validity of the marriages and conversions performed by the Beta Israel religious authorities, claiming that they are not complying with Halakha.​

Of course, to be fair, that could also be a matter of racists using religion as a weapon to fight their battles but I don't see how we can be entirely sure one way or the other and, frankly, what's the difference.

 

Well, it's either a state program or it isn't. Any guesses?

 

There is a small segment of the Israeli ultra-orthodox community that doesn't recognize them. So, let's say 2% of Israelis doubt their Jewishness. That's not changing anything I've posted here.