Over the past couple of years there has been countless discussions about how weak futbol argentino has become at a domestic level. The lack of money leading to a mass exodus to players to europe, and argentinas clubs struggling in the bargain basement to buy players of a price that second or third tier european clubs could buy without breaking a sweat. For me it really hit its lowest point in the superclasico in november, no disrespect to the players that took to the field that day, but there is no way those players would have got anywhere near a boca/river side in the past. So why im asking the crazy question has it got stronger? First of all, the managers, off the top of my head i can think off gallego, ramon diaz, palermo, bianchi, guillermo, diego cagna are all managing at the moment. Some are unproven as such, but in general they are all huge names in futbol argentino, and that can only be a good thing especially in terms of spicing up the clasicos. Also, we all remember the break up of that great velez side(which is the best team ive ever seen so far in argentina) and boca being dismantled last summer. But this winter break, there seems to have been a slight change, it looks to me more like our clubs are aiming to bring back players than sell, especially keeping our young players. Clubs have already been sniffing around paredes and sanchez mino for example, but they have been met with a firm refusal, whereas 6 months ago angelici was selling or letting go everybody he possibly could. We have seen river attempting to bring iturbe and ricky alvarez in, and even if it doesnt happen, surely its a sign that river are well on the way to recovery, they wouldnt have even attempted this in recent years. Boca have managed to lure martinez back to argentina, who surely has taken paycut to come back. And the one that made me almost choke on my bacon sandwich, was when i heard that san lorenzo offered $2.5million for martinez. SAN LORENZO!!!! Its not so long ago they couldnt even afford to buy balls for the training ground, and now they have money to throw around. This was the equivalent of a hobo (literally in their case as they dont have a home , walking into a car showroom and dropping a briefcase full of money on the table, i couldnt believe my ears. So, is this just a temporary, minor lull in the fortunes of our clubs, or is it really the start of a long term improvement both financially and in the product we see on the pitch?
I'm looking at the football played on pitches, each year is getting worse in that respect. I'm pretty sure most of the journalist covering the league arent even watching the full 90 min game nowdays (or fainting). While obviously we cant compete financially, the dirigeants of argentine clubs are equally to blame by their sheer corruption or incompetence and last but not least, the new wave of coaches are pretty poor. I mean we had to suffer from Almeyda's nonsense for almost a year and half before getting sacked. The guy has zero idea on football and how to make a group of players with a cleart identity of game. The worst is those kind of coaches are multiplicating themselves now the argie football which should give you an idea where we're going this decade and the next.
Well the money situation is the key.Europe is in deep crisis which while not effecting the money laundering outfits like Manchester City PSG Chelsea etc is hitting the Euro middle classes hard.At the same time loathe it or like it Futbol para todos is here now two years and its impact on the clubs is more apparent.Also again loathe it or like it consumption in Argentina is booming and that includes futbol membership merchandise rtc.Hence the River/Boca shirt deals now well up with your Valencias Tottenham Schalkes. The Sudamericano sub 20 will be interesting too as we could until 2007 boast the best young players on the planrt but the quality dried up for a few years but this group look good.I thought the inicial was a big improvement with more returning than leaving.This trend seems to be continuing but theres three weeks left to kick off. The country despite inflation and dollar shortages seems set to grow quickly again this year so short term and with Sabella telling the seleccion peripheral players to get game time at home if neccesary it should continue.I hope er get Alvarez pity Boca didnt get Gago.If San Lorenzo get Coloccini it would be another small signal.
With San Lorenzo is it not because some rich media magnate has decided to sink funds in ? There are a lot of financial problems still with many others that need dealing with to avoid youngsters running off to Europe too early although given the coaching they receive it might be better in a strange way that they do. Lamela under Zeman is a completely different animal to Lamela under Almeyda. The talent however was always there. These things such as youth coaching and the competition itself need to be monitored to ensure Argentine football remains healthy at all levels from club to country.
Lamela never played under Almeyda. He did, however, play under JJ Lopez, which didn't benefit him at all because of his defensive formation (5 defenders, 2 defensive midfielders, Pereyra, Lamela, and a forward). As for CASLA, it's as you say: it's all Tinelli. Just wait for Tinelli to step aside another time and the club with once again be in ruins.
You're right loco. Got a bit muddled up but the point remains. Just like our u20's with a proper coach wouldn't be in the mess they are now.
Just seen the copa de la Rio de la Plata in the centenario.I am no Velez fan but they are the example for everyone facilities comparable to the very best in Europe a coach who has the team playing wonderful futbol and a dirigencia who can see their team win a championship and sell absolutely nobody.I think if they concentrate on the Libertadores they will be very very close to winning it even allowing for the World club champions+Pato.
Dude, Velez's facilities are no where near comparable with the best in europe. No club in Argentina is anywhere close in terms of stadium, infrastructure, facilities, etc. to the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc. The only thing that is close, is River's Museum and if Boca pulls off the New Bombonera, that will be close, but Velez is no where near the best clubs in spain, england, etc. And I don't want them to win the libertadores, i hope they lose (i don't think any river would want velez to win and equal river with 2 libertadores. My preferences to win in no particular order would be Millonarios, Barcelona, U de Chile, or Fluminense. If it has to be a team thats won it before, I hope its Nacional)
Well dude I beg to differ and after having been to the Villa Olimpica of Velez and the training facilities of Valencia and Celtic both in last 16 of Champions league if not Madrid let me inform you in my humble opinion Velezs are superior.Whether I want them or you want them to win the Libertadores is a complete irrelevance to where their team is at.I expressed the opinion they will be close winning the Copa not that I wanted them to win.This discussion is about quality not what we want.
I have never been to Celtic or Valencia, but I have been to Real Madrid and Barcelona's facilities, stadiums, museums, etc. and those are superior in my opinion to the Villa Olimpica. As for the Almalfitani... well thats a very, very poor stadium and not even close to being the best in buenos aires, let along all of argentina, and to compare it to a top european ground is ludicrous. As for Velez's chances of winning the Libertadores, I think it will be hard. Of the three teams that have won the Primera Division Argentina under Gareca (2009 and 2011 Clausrua, 2012 Apertura) I think this is the worse side. The defensive rocks like Cubera, Papa, and Dominguez are now all on the wrong side of 30... Up front Pocho Insua is 33 or 34 i think and wasn't very instrumental in the league title as he was when he played at Boca or Independiente or when he was in Mexico. Maxi Moralez was a real crack, and they also had David Ramirez who was the leading scorer when they won the 2011 clausura. Up front, Chucky Ferrerya is a great goal scorer, but I think his all round game isn't as good as Silva. I think if Velez was going to win the Copa, they would have done it in 2011, but Silva missed the penal and the rest is history
I agree the Amalfitani isnt the best in Bs.As but unfortunately from our point of you the Villa Olimpica is superb for a club with the support Velez enjoy.I compared Velez overall facilities to top European teams not just the stadium but even there the Amalfitani compares well to the Mestalla or Vicente Calderon.I would not disagree that this Velez team in 2012 was not as good as the previous teams.But by staying together and with such hugely ptomising players as Peruzzi,Allione,Romero and Chucky Ferreira they can only get better. You seem to fall into the old Argentine trap of glorifying everything European.Many parts of Europe are falling apart including such famous stadiums as the Olimpico and even the San Siro.
You are right there Blonde Arrow. Many of the stadia in Italy and Spain are creaking. There have been plans to build new stadia. But with the financial recession many of those projects are on hold. The attendances as well particularly in Italy are terrible. The best stadia and facilities are in England and Germany. Velez though is the example all Argentine clubs should follow in being well run. Personally I hope they do well in the Libertadores. I'd rather see an Argentina club suceed than others from other countries. And it will benefit the seleccion if players like Peruzzi can taste the sucess and push on from it.
Could not agree more.Argentine clubs need to find Lubertadores success again.It would be great for Peruzzi and indeed Velez is the example.They maximise their potential brillaintly.Gareca now five years as tecnico its almost unheard of.
Velez are certainly a good example of how to run a club well in a tough climate, and Gareca being there as long as he has is certainly a help on the pitch. I just hope Independiente get their act together and don't get relegated!!?
With Rolfi Montenegro and Dorlan Pabon, I doubt Independiente will go down. Those are two top players in a very mediocre league. Not to mention, Tecla Faria is always capable of heating up after a very poor apertura.
If you think the stadiums in Italy and Spain are creaking, i'd hate to hear what you think about the stadiums in Argentina. Other than the Mario Kempes and the Estadio Unico , the stadiums are in poor shape. El Monumental is the best ground by a wide margin in Argentina, but it needs a serious refurbishing. Las Malvinas Argentinas in Mendoza is a really good stadium as well... I'm a fan of the Mundialista de Mar del Plata, but its not used by a first division side, and is mainly used in the torneos de verano. The rest are pretty poor. Independiente's stadium is a villa miseria. Its literally half done, its incredible that a professional team actually plays there. Racing's ground I don't think has been touched in 50 years. San Lorenzo's stadium is probably the worst in argentina, and is in the middle of the most dangerous villa miseria in all of argentina And la Albiceleste2010, you say you want to root for Velez in the Copa... Would you root for Chelsea in the Champions League? Or Manchester City? Thats the way we feel about Velez
I entirely understand where you are coming from Gaucho. No way would I support Chelsea or Manchester City and you can draw that analogy supporting River you really wouldn't your fellow competitors coming close to your record ie Liverpool and Manchester United fierce rivalry over the number of European Cups they have. I would love to see River not just back at the top of Argentine football but also South American football indeed return to it's rightful place as one of the worlds greatest clubs. But being far removed I also would like to see Argentine clubs beat all their rivals in South America. I want to see the Sudamericana and Libertadores not say in Brazil but within Argentinas borders. As for the stadia. I don't know but the UAR want to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup and would like to build a new stadium in the north of Buenos Aires as well as seeing certain stadia in Tucuman, Mendoza and Santa Fe modernized. It's shame about the economics over there. Facilities are not what they should be. It's not helped by the loss of transfer funds to agents and shareholders and other causes. Fingers crossed there is an economic upswing which means the infrastructure can be improved both the stadia and the surrounding areas. If economic sucess could be realized then no longer would clubs be forced to sell quickly and below price and the league itself would improve again and hopefully net bigger global coverage deals. I don't think they sell it very well to the rest of the world outside of the Americas. It could be a very lucrative market which European clubs are looking to tap into. The number of players River has produced of the top level in recent years they would be as dominant as Barcelona are and more than their match. Hopefully those years aren't too far into the future. The league also needs to be reorganized. Coaches need to be given time which the current weighting structure and split season does not allow. It's not really helping coaches grow. And is there a coach licenses system ? I am amazed for example how Trobbiani can be allowed to coach at all.
funniest part is, the villa where I work is in much better shape and closer to finished than the Libertadores. that stadium needs an "aqui tambien, la nacion crece" sign in front of it. the problem with all these stadiums really is the fact that while a few have nice old time charm to them, the rest arent even that old. Mostly just built half assed with bigger plans than budgets.
The thing about the analogy Albiceleste is, I would have no problem rooting for smaller teams from the interior of the country like Colon or Godoy Cruz (i rooted for them in 2011 and 2012 copa libertadores) I wouldn't mind seeing Newell's do well, but its something about Velez tbh- though Velez at least has merits, unlike racing, san lorenzo, and independiente- ex grandes. As for where I'd like to see the Copa Libertadores end up... I'd rather see it at U de Chile or Barcelona de Guayaquil or Millonarios (a club with HUGE ties to River since Perdernera, Di Stefano and Amadeo Carrizo. Their barra brava is even named after el bufalo funes, a man who also gave River our first copa libertadores in 1986) Those clubs are giants in the game, and deserve to win the copa. If it has to go to a team that has won it before, i'd prefer Nacional de Montevideo You say global coverage, but you also know that the argentine league has by far the biggest global audience in south america, by far. The Brazilian League isn't televised in spanish speaking south america (without having direct tv and a special package that is), while argentina is seen in ever country on ESPN and FOX. River vs. Boca is the most watch match in the americas, even more so than America vs. Chivas... The game is shown live every where, including Brazil and Mexico and USA
Independiente has yet to reach an agreement for Pabon: "Eso es mentira, ese Facebook es falso. Estoy esperando esta semana a ver qué va a pasar con mi futuro, pero, igual no tengo nada fijo. Estoy tranquilo y tengo la cabeza en Parma", argumentó Pabón en Radio Caracol. Sin embargo, más tarde la siguieron en Radio Del Plata. "Mi idea es volver en 7 u 8 años a Sudamérica. No sé que pueda pasar esta semana, pero no tengo pensado regresar", http://www.ole.com.ar/independiente/enfrio-cafe_0_848915437.html
Mario Bolatti signs for Racing from Internacional.With the likes of Gago,Martinez,Montenegro,etc returning it adds to the argument standards are improveing.