Is Matt Besler a better option than Omar Gonzalez

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by deuteronomy, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    Omar Gonzalez was caught ball watching on both Honduran goals, Wednesday, and the cost was severe.


    Omar and Matt Besler are entirely different kinds of player. Omar is physically imposing, even towering. Besler at 6'0" is more cerebral, a better passer who sees the entire field and it's dangers.

    Besler was, of course, named MLS defender of the year while Gonzo was MVP of the MLS Cup.

    Jurgen is talking about making changes in the lineup. Will Besler be one? Is Besler's skill set a better option for our Hex Qualifiers?


  2. Berks

    Berks Member+

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    After rolling the dice in Honduras, you don't roll the dice again in Denver.

    Stick with something.

    That is one of the worst games I've seen Omar play in ages. And I mean AGES. A lot of that has to do with unfamiliar partners, and plain old nerves. He does not play at the level exhibited on that lowlight reel. You can argue if he's ready for Mexico (I'd rather have Boca in that match unless Omar plays a blinder in Honduras), but at home, now knowing some teammates, and getting his first match under his belt, he is a better option than Besler.

    Not to mention that, but he will be helping mark someone he sees in MLS day in, day out: Saborio. Ruiz will be a harder mark, but that's someone Cameron should be able to help with.

    Your options are Boca or Gonzo. Throwing another player into the mix at this point introduces even more ambiguity and strangeness into the equation.

    Depending on the next month, you go with one of them. If Chandler doesn't perform pending where Cameron is playing for Stoke there is also a possibility of moving Cameron out right and having Boca + Gonzo in the middle.

    I know it's easy to throw Omar out based on 1 game. But we can't do it. In hindsight I was willing to give him a shot in Honduras, and I was wrong. That game needed a veteran. This is the game that is more suitable to let someone have at it.

    Let's all remember Brek Shea's first two games - he was god awful. And now he plays for Stoke.

    I want to see if we can get to a stable back line before we start changing it.

    And one final note - Besler to me is more similar to Cameron. If Cameron is going to be the other CB, I think you need the Omar presence as a balance. I want the long legged physical guy who has aerial presence defending in the box who can also help you score. He and Cameron are bookends. If Besler replaces someone, the player he is more similar to is Cameron.
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  3. Excellency

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    This is silly. The most sought after force in the universe is synergy where 1+1 = 3

    Omar is good in the air and scores but Is a mediocre passer. Besler can pass really well. Besler passes much better than Cameron, too. Hwvr, Cameron is a monster defender in the fullback position at Stoke. Otoh, you have a guy like Hedges who can win every aerial battle and can score and pass but cud be dicey in the box defending goal against very high quality competition, not because he isn't good but because he just completed his rookie season and needs development.

    I wonder why everything is stuck and we are spinning our wheels. What is all the wait about?
  4. West Coast Futbol

    West Coast Futbol Member

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    Yes.


  5. Excellency

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    Since we are on the subject of Besler, I wonder if somebody can tell me why, after all the soccer nerd talk about "passing out of the back", Klinsi has 2 cb's, neither of which can pass out of the back. He could, of course, put besler in and send Cameron back to Stoke as damaged goods.
  6. Eleven Bravo

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    While Besler is better, Cameron is a good distributor.
  7. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    Yes, but if you crap out and switch to the roulette wheel, you might wish to consider betting red instead of black . .

    Well, Klinsmann has indicated there will be changes.

    Remember this game?

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/usa-brazil-player-ratings-few-bright-spots

    And, of course, the other guy sees him just as much.


    It's hard to say what might happen. And a shame we are not sitting on top of the Hex.
  8. Excellency

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    "..good..".......um.........meh....nah....

    Look, there are plenty of cb's and fb's in the elite level of football who are not great passers or "distributors".
    Defence comes first. Hwvr, having somebody who can pass long in the air or on the ground on a dime with intelligence like Besler or Hedges is something to take into consideration. We have them but Klinsi doesnt want them.
  9. Grogtank

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    I would shift Cameron out to RB and move Chandler to RM. Castillo to LB and Fabian to LM. Something of a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1. Either Boca or Besler next to Omar depending on opponent and training performance.

    edit: This assumes no in form Shea or Donovan obviously.
  10. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

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    This isn't a bad suggestion. I still get nervous about Castillo but he's been playing well, and clearly Fabian is better in attack, plus we need flank play BADLY. You could even set it up as a 4-1-3-2 if you want to go more offensive, and could also go with Boca AND Besler...if we had had time to test that partnership out (thanks Jurgen):

    --------Jozy----Dempsey--------
    Fabian-----Bradley-----Chandler?
    -------------JJ/Edu--------------
    Castillo--Boca--Besler--Cameron
    --------------Tim-----------------

    That doesn't look half bad. If it were up to me I'd actually have Feilhaber where Mike is (call me crazy, go on) and Mike where one of JJ or Edu are. But that's just me and maybe I overrate Benny.
  11. soccerusa517

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    Don't know yet to be honest. First game for Gonzalez so I'll cut him some slack.
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  12. Excellency

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    Wouldnt CR just double up in the middle like a blob against Jozy and Dempsey knowing that Fabian and Chandler dont score goals? Just asking
  13. Grogtank

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    It solves the width issue with natural wide players using their natural foot. We could start out in the 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 and without even making a sub switch to the 4-1-3-2 you suggest depending on the flow of the match. With Feilhaber a sub would be required to shift to the 4-1-3-2 simply because I doubt anyone would want him starting as a 6. It's a good option to have certainly.
  14. Grogtank

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    They would have to defend the cross. This is the point of moving Fabian and Chandler to the midfield and getting us some genuine width with genuine wide players. Pulling their fullback out opens up space.
  15. MtMike

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    Can Besler prove any German heritage? That might get him on the field.
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  16. Excellency

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    Ronaldo opens space because more than one player has to get out of position and cover him wide which means that Ronaldo's team, Real Madrid has superior numbers elsewhere.

    You are saying that CR will double team Chandler on the theory he would otherwise run at goal and score?

    It would be exciting to see some vid of that. Let me save you some futility: dont bother.
  17. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    Grin, he sure has a better chance than Omar . . .
  18. jond

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    I'm leaning towards Boca/Cameron because of the magnitude of the CR game. Our captain and most experienced CB next to our most experienced of the up and coming CB's in Cameron.

    But in general, can't really say who's better between Besler and Omar because they're different. Is Omar's size and physicality more important in CONCACAF qualifying or is Beslers speed and calmness on the ball? Given no one in CONCACAF will be whipping in crosses on us it's not hard to make the argument for Besler, but I don't think his first NT meaningful start should be in such an important game.

    As I've said in other threads, I'm willing to try

    --------Cameron-------
    ---Boca------Gonzalez
    or
    --------Cameron------
    ----Boca------Besler----
    or
    ---------Edu/Williams-----
    FJ----Boca----Gonzalez---Cameron
    or
    ---------Edu/Williams------
    FJ----Boca----Besler----Cameron

    but on 3/22 I probably put the CB pairing I'm most confident in out there and that's Boca/Cameron for me. Put it this way, I don't think using either of Omar or Besler in the next two qualifiers gives us our best chance, and if we do use one of them, I pair them with Boca and play Cameron at DMid where he's probably better anyway and it helps with distribution.
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  19. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

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    err what? lol
  20. jond

    jond Member+

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    And I agree with those who say if Landon/Shea aren't available, you get at least one of FJ/Chandler on the wing. My preference would be Cameron to RB and Chandler to RW, but I'm not opposed to Castillo/FJ on the left either.

    Hell, if Landon hasn't given JK a date of return, I strongly consider Cameron to RB and Chandler to RW immediately, for both March games and the June games. If Landon were to come back by June use him as a sub and go from there when Aug comes around. We need some consistency. But JK can't coach anymore like Landon will be back for the next set of games and we're just filling in at RW. I say end the Zusi crap, start Chandler at RW for the next 5 qualifiers + friendlies in May, Cameron at RB, and Gatt off the bench if needed and let them build chemistry. Then if Landon does come back, just use him as a sub after seeing how the Chandler/Cameron right side pairing works and if it's not doing well and LD is playing well in LA he then probably gets the RW spot come Aug.

    But right now it seems JK is using Jones/Zusi as RW placeholders. That shit needs to end now. It's killing us. Have to act like Landon will not be back and get someone out there who can actually hack it at winger, and that's most likely Chandler with Gatt getting sub appearances and it isn't that hard since Cameron actually plays RB for Stoke. Chero might be back for June as well. Parkhurst and Lichaj can also play RB. No reason not to move Chandler to RW since he's better in the attack anyway, has pace, naturally wide and can cross. And you have to stick with it from March through June.

    Will say that of today, Pulis talked up Shea after Stoke's game, said he's been lively in training and in contention to play against Fulham, so he might be a possibility.
  21. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    But Omar is the second-best CB of Mexican descent behind MOF. JK likes him.
  22. Gamecock14

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    Since the Omar hype began during his rookie season, he had two main problems. First, he was terrible at passing from the back, which he somewhat improved. Second, he struggled against speedy players, as was evidenced at the international level against Brasil.

    He will always dominate the air and in MLS that skill will almost always make you a dominant defender. He never really displayed a defense skill set beyond winning everything in the air. That is why his Nurnberg loan was so intriguing because he would be somewhat forced out of his strengths.
  23. Ghosting

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    I'm undecided on your main point (I think Gonzo deserves another chance, but I wouldn't be pissed to see Besler in there)... However, I think Gonzo is getting too much stick here.

    On that first goal, Gonzo is clearly doing what he was coached to do (not get drawn out of the middle, and leave the outside pressure to F. Johnson). Johnson is slow to come off the post and chase the errant corner. Then there are four US players at the far post who fail to challenge the high ball as it comes in. Cameron is two yards goalside of his man, and tries to close the distance to challenge the second (or third) ball which is put in the back of the net with a great, athletic overhead kick.

    I think the fault for this goal lies mainly with Johnson being slow off his line, and the four guys (Bradley is one of them, I think Chandler is another, but I can't tell in this vid) that are not challenging the cross.

    I think a valid critique of Gonzo can be made on the second goal (yeah... he was ball-watching), but Cameron and Howard are primarily responsible for that goal on a colossally bad mis-communication. His distribution was poor, and he looked discombobulated at times.

    However, I thought Chandler looked WAY worse than Omar out there, and the whole backline looked shaky.
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  24. West Coast Futbol

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    First game at this level; just not the first time caught ball watching. I am used to it, but then I don't like the Gals so I am all right with it at the level Gonzalez 'succeeds' at.
  25. Mr Martin

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    Besler might be better than Omar for the US. But we simply don't know. We haven't seen enough tests to compare with. And the Hex is a real rotten time to be playing musical CBs.

    I say stick with Gonzo and Cameron for the next game. Don't panic after 1 game in a really difficult enviroment. Because if you switch to Besler now, it will be his first ever qualifier, too, just like what Gonzo just faced, and he might mess up just as easily. And then we know nothing. Be patient and stick with something for at least a little while.
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