Is it time to consider a team WITHOUT Altidore?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by DCURFK, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But not the 23?
     
  2. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least in 2010 the 23 man roster was announced before the send off series. So short of injury he is on the 23 for me.
     
  3. Kaptain_Amerika

    Jun 19, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He needs to some how pick it up at club level. He's not the type who can come in and be effective despite travails at club level.
     
  5. gv689

    gv689 Member

    Mar 31, 2005
  6. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we had multiple other strikers doing it in top leagues that's one thing but we don't. AJ is the next closest we have. Boyd is in a league were a couple sides are much better than the mls but the rest are just on par. Agudelo is still inconsistent in a better league tho he's at least healthy. Wondo and EJ haven't gotten it done against better competition. Dempsey and donovan are not strikers.

    Jozy will be in the 23.
     
  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Altidore is no more a battling back to goal forward than Agudelo or Eddie Johnson both of whom also have good records with the team(at center forward). Agudelo and EJ are better in the air. Agudelo has a better trap. They both make better runs off the ball. Agudelo also has superior instincts around the area.

    Altidore for a big man has a brilliant dribble. He's got a killer spin move. He's an excellent set piece taker. He has a powerful shot. He's shown very mixed ability to express this when things are not going well at club level however.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    From what I've seen of Agudelo with Utrecht so far, he's likely to make the 30 but doubt he'll be in the 23.
     
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  9. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I think there are definitely attributes of a target man that Jozy is or was missing or had to be taught, which he does indeed make up for with the secondary striker skills that he seems to possess so well.

    Still, I think that, in terms of target forwards, we have nobody in the pool who draws as much attention and creates as much space for his partners. That, for me, is maybe the most underrated aspect of Jozy's game.

    As far his partner goes, I'm always switching between Mix, Aron, and Landon. Mix and Aron's best performances have both come off the bench, but Bacon seems more deserving of a start, and with wide midfielders that are fit or capable of providing decent service (i.e., the exact opposite of his start vs Jamaica). Mix does seem clever up front and calm with the ball so I wouldn't mind seeing him get the start. Landon and Jozy is a pairing that I've wanted to see for a bit now. Jozy loves to play the ball on the ground and work smart combinations with his partners, and I think that Donovan might actually be best at using the precious few yards of space he'll get from working with such a distracting target. It may have only been the Gold Cup, but Landon really showed well with a number of partners that tournament.
     
  10. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's probably underrating Altidore too much. He has flaws that prevent him from being a world class CF, but he's by far the best and most accomplished CF in our pool. It's not really close, in my opinion. Jozy turned Sergio Ramos and John Terry in competitive matches. I would put Eddie Johnson as a distant 2nd behind him in terms of NT form. I find it hard to make the argument that Agudelo has a "good record" with the Nats at any position.
     
  11. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I'm almost positive that was Joan Capdevilla and, to be 100% objective even though I agree with you, he was really stupid on that play...
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Altidore is the best but of the all the strikers in the pool he is currently not playing the best. Hopefully he turns it around.
     
  13. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    And I think just playing well is as important to him as any player in the pool. That seems silly, but Jozy's confidence is his biggest strength and weakness. When the kid is confident, he is an absolute menace. When he's angry or distracted or down on himself, he really is kind of rough to watch. I mean, poor touches and poor plays happen to even the best players - he has to find the professionalism to move past it. If nothing else, this season at Sunderland will teach him that very thing.

    I remember the U.S. match against Costa Rica after the Davies accident. Jozy was absolutely determined to play a good game for his boy, and he came out firing on all cylinders in that first half. It was actually incredibly scary how tough of a time he was giving the Costa Rican defenders. It's Costa Rica, of course, and not a top tier squad, but I feel like, at least on that night, he would have given any body a rough go of it.



    For the sake of reliving one of the most memorable nights in U.S. Soccer (if you ask me). If Navas hadn't been in tip top form for that game, we'd have bagged it pretty easily. Jozy really does just manhandle some of these guys.
     
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  14. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My hope (prayer, inrealistic dream) is that he can't wait to get out of Sunderland and back to the US camp. Almost like a kid homesick at camp. And once he gets back in an environment where he is one of the veterans rather than the newb having to prove himself that confidence will return. Probably not realistic but worth giving it every chance.
     
  15. ckl26

    ckl26 Member+

    Jul 21, 2012
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Very good post. He needs to go to a league to get his confidence/swagger back...even if it's a step down like Ligue 1, or a top Eredivisie side
     
  16. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    If I were manager, I would play a three man line, in the preparation freindlies, consisting of Dempsey, Aron + 1 and Jozy on the bench with Donovan in the hole playing the "10" in front of 2 dmids i.e. bradley + Jones/Edu.

    Jozy would come on as a sub. Maybe we would not find anybody better than Jozy by the time Ghana rolls around and simply start Jozy but at least we would have tried and Jozy would have had his minutes as sub to get prepared.
     
  17. Now you can ask the top strikers of the world what it means to try to score against an Eredivisie defense as they tried it in Brasil. They only managed 4 goals of which 2 were dodgy penalties. De Vrij was the best defender in the World Cup, but somehow he was more scared of the strikers in the "Eredivisie"!
    And to put it in perspective: the Feyenoord defense (= the Orange defense) had the most leaky defense of the top 6 teams of the league.
     
  18. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JK put all of his eggs in the Jozy basket. He needs to have a plan "B", maybe even forgo the 9 position and use two SS formation.
     
  19. brewcity77

    brewcity77 Member

    Jun 27, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vlaar still plays for Feyenoord?

    It's tough to argue this with an American audience when we've seen both Bradley and Altidore score for fun in Holland only to have their numbers return to pedestrian levels when they leave the Eredivisie. Who knows what will happen with Johannsson, but I am definitely tempering my expectations.

    Also, to put it in perspective, you're wrong. Feyenoord had the third stingiest defense in the league. Only Ajax (28) and Twente (37) allowed fewer goals than Feyenoord (40) in the 2013-14 season. Not sure why you underrate your own team's defense, but if you don't believe me, here are some sources to confirm it:

    http://www.espnfc.com/dutch-eredivisie/11/table?season=2013
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Eredivisie#League_table
     
  20. brewcity77

    brewcity77 Member

    Jun 27, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To address the actual question, I think the problem is Jozy is the only player capable of playing forward the way Jurgen wants it played. He's the biggest, strongest, and most experienced. Agudelo isn't ready and it seems based on Jurgen's actions he doesn't think Boyd is quite there either. And in our pool, who else is there?

    Preparing for life without Jozy should be happening, but the problem we ran into after Jozy went down was an inability to adjust tactics. We either needed to move to a false 9, with no true forward (simply because no one on the roster could hold up like Altidore), slide someone with the size and physicality to play Jozy's position (with no Boyd, maybe Bradley would have worked, doubtful, but better than casting him as a play-making 10), or take advantage of the forwards we did have and try to let Johannsson beat a trap or make a run rather than replacing a player he's not.

    I really think looking 4-8 years down the road, a false 9 may benefit us greatly. We have so many young midfield talents coming up and so few comparable striker prospects. Better to play to your strengths than to try to hide your weaknesses.
     

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