Yeah that extra bit of motion is what Jozy seems to forget in certain situations - with AZ he kept running because he kept getting the ball back with space, with a Sunderland, he has to keep running just hoping and praying a miracle happens and he gets a pass back in a good spot. Instead of apparently conserving energy for next cb wrestling match, which is admittedly a load.
Why is the Sunderland move looked at so negatively? He's testing himself against international-quality players every week. His team is bad, but that just means he needs to work even harder or make an even better run to get the ball. It falls perfectly in line with JK's "uncomfortable situation" philosophy. How can this not make Jozy better? He's 24, learning how to make it work in adverse conditions, playing regularly, and making good money. Sure, it's frustrating to see him struggle and his teammates do stupid stuff, but won't this just make it so much easier when he has Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, etc. with him? I'd rather him be at Sunderland than chilling in the Middle East like Asamoah Gyan.
Interesting debate so far... I'd add that I am not entirely convinced that Jozy is our best target forward or really a very good target forward as a whole. He plays fairly well with his back to goal but without service (and by service I mean pin point passing which we don't really have) he roams needlessly, has a difficult time winning 50/50 long passes, and doesn't have the greatest aerial game. He really seems just as well as being part of the build of an attack than playing isolated (which we have seen time and again to very bad). If AJ maintains form (just scored a brace in the dutch cup) then a traditional 4-4-2 looks more likely with another versatile striker in tandem - ala Dempsey (and I'm pretty hard on Dempsey). I'd see AJ/Dempsey paying more dividends than a 4-4-1-1 with Jozy playing lone/target forward. I love Jozy and I know he took a beating during his national team drought but going to Sunderland has been poison for his career. He deserve the looks but as someone said "hot hand"... hot hand indeed.
Cause you got to score as a forward. He's not. This isn't a time for him to start "learning" - he's getting to the point where he needs to start producing. He'll be 28 for the next WC, not too old or anything, but that's a lot of wilderness for the USMNT to wait for him to suddenly take it to the next level. I really am unsure if he can which is a shame cause he has all the tools to be a world class striker (or at least a significant one).
What? No. He's scores plenty for the national team. I'd rather have him struggling to score and challenging himself against World Cup players every week at the club level than scoring 30 goals against competition he won't see at the World Cup. I just don't get this argument at all. So it isn't the time for learning? Why do teams train? Everyone is trying to get better, and Jozy is in a position that forces him to do so.
He only recently got on track with scoring for the national team. Could be a blip, could be a trend - I am hoping trend. That said, forwards are like golfers. You either on or you're off. Scoring goals builds confidence and mentally improves their game. I'd rather have Jozy scoring 15 - 20 goals somewhere than scoring 2 goals in the EPL. And I think in a way you answered your own question why this is an issue - if he can't score in the EPL against "World Cup Players" then how is he going to score in the actual WORLD CUP against those same players?
Hmm... since he joined Sunderland, Jozy has provided 4 goals and 1 assist for the USMNT. Not bad at all. Matter of fact, since he transferred in 8th July of this year, the only player to have more goals/assists for the USMNT is Donovan (6G/8A).
So are you arguing he's not world cup quality? I was arguing that the Sunderland move wasn't terrible because he has to improve and test himself against world cup players every week. Maybe I was a little off-topic, but argue against my point please.
Well, on the counter, it can be argued AJ, EJ, etc. are scoring against defenders who are not even going to sniff the World Cup.
Because he's struggling there and going into the World Cup most want him playing well with a lot of confidence.
I think most would have welcomed this move post World Cup. But want him on his A game going in and are worried that this move will hurt him. Not necessarily because you can't handle the level but Sunderland doesn't play to his strengths.
I think on our team he is world cup quality, as in "should be brought". Lock starter? Maybe not - some of this will depend on the friendlies leading up to the cup. Obviously if he continues to demonstrate well in our system, with our players, against international teams then by all means this whole conversation becomes moot. That caveat in mind - he's not playing particularly well at Sunderland, his club team. Quality of the league has nothing nothing to do with him as a player. It's not some magic fairy dust that makes him an automatically better player - and in fact I would say it could be detrimental to his play. Just because the competition is better and he's getting increasing challenges doesn't mean that translates into improved game play. I would contend that it'll undermine his confidence, lower his ability to take the risks he needs to, and effectively make him doubt himself. He's marginal in the EPL, sadly. He was marginal at Hull too. Part of it is he has a shitty eye for picking teams but I also don't think he matches well with the EPL. Maybe if he were on City or Everton he'd get better service and better goal scoring opportunities but he'd also be facing more competition from the bench and likely get less playing time and, potentially, not score like some presume. I'd rather see our players playing and scoring than struggling and failing. We have a lot of talent - he's not our only forward - and he's not so far and away above everyone else that this shouldn't be a consideration - and unless things change I don't see him as a lock starter as I saw him as one a year ago.
Oh sure. I would not get worried. There is little reason to expect Jurgen will pull Jozy in Brazil. What would be the point other than to make himself an unpopular guy.
Of course. Dempsey scored a bucketful against the best. Jozy scores on the weak. Ghana, Portugal and Germany ain't weak. Dropping Jozy gives us the chance to add a dmid like Mo Edu with the result that Jones a/o Bradley can get forward, pick their spots and score.
A D-Mid like Mo but who's actually playing? We only have two choices. Behind Door A is Dani Williams, playing regularly in the Championship, and providing assists once in a while. Not bad, his club may even get promoted with some luck. Behind Door B is the dread-full one, Kyle Beckerman, who provides good coverage for a MLSer, and sends long-distance shots that keep keepers on their toes. Cameron is not really a DM, when he plays centrally (even for the USMNT), he's more of yet-another-box-to-box CM. Actually, the third option would be Torres, because that's the role he plays with the Tigres, so that Lobos and Gui-Gui Pizarro can go on the attack, but JFT gets tired after 60 minutes.
Mo in shape would be the ticket, for my money. He is probably better than Nzonzi (dontcha think?) DWil has lead in his boots and Kyle is great in a wolf pack but not a 1v1 defender. As for JFT, I dont want to see him in a Manaus hospital.
He is the best striker right now and has usually played quite well for the NT especially this year. He may not be scoring for Sunderland, but doesn't matter as long as he is healthy and getting his minutes and bringing good form. 21 goals in 66 matches is nothing to laugh at.
In the interest of scoring goals, you are going to drop Jozy for that trio? Jozy has more goals than all of them combined for the national team. Plus, if the thinking is that Jozy isn't in great form for his club and should be dropped, then what is the logic for putting in Mo Edu? When was the last time he played in a competitive match? In fact, why the hell would he be in Brazil in the first place? I don't think you've thought this out well enough. I'm wondering, though, what mythical striker we have that would be bagging goals for Sunderland. If you can think of one, by all means, put him in for Jozy.
You claim that Dempsey could bag more than 20 goals for Fullham but not Sunderland. I dont see the logic. Edu has a lot of experience playing the international game for the USMNT and his record speaks for itself. If Jozy is not going to score goals, why not replace him with a def mid who will stop the other guys from scoring while making it possible for a mid like Jones or Bradley to concentrate on offense and scoring.
When have Jones and Bradley been scoring for the US? And, again, Edu can't even make the bench for Stoke, yet you think he's a viable option against Germany, Portugal and Ghana? Really? And, no, Dempsey isn't bagging goals for Sunderland. Besides, when has he been in competition with Altidore?
Your position is a popular one and I have no doubt it will prevail. The Turks were happy with Edu. The Rangers were happy with Edu. He had a sports hernia to start the season this year at Stoke where he is playing for a coach who did not buy him.
FYP. Frankly, I'm concerned. Shea doesn't figure in the 18-men lists for games, but you see him around, giving interviews and hanging out with the team. Edu is like completely gone.
we have enough deep to say this simple and true fact: we do not have locked players or positions anymore. we have already too many good/excellent options in every position, except perhaps in LB, to depend on a sole player. Altidore is a very good stryker, a first starter anyway, but we have now very fine options to play , also- johansen, boyd, perhaps eddie johnson. we have such a deep now that even competent/good strykers like herculez gomez or wondolosky, kenny cooper, bruin, sandoval are not even considered to be second (or third)choices.
Edu should have headed back to Turkey or accepted a Ligue 1 offer as rumors had it. He's collecting a check but is out of the picture for USMNT as long as never ever even makes the bench for Stoke.
Jozy has often been the best player for Sunderland, even though he's not scoring goals. If he really loses form, he should lose his starting spot to a player that's performing better. We have the forward depth for that. But leaving him off the roster entirely is just insane. He is one of the top 5 players in our entire pool.