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Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Scotty, Mar 19, 2012.
Bradley and Chievo played today and lost 1-0 at Atalanta.
When I was in Florence, many liked the play of GK's Howard, Keller, Freidel and of course midfielder John O'Brien for Ajax. The 2002 WC started opening peoples eyes quite a bit and when the USA lost to Germany , many fans were disappointed the Americans didn't win as they liked their skill set. Still you have that Euro snobbery/bias that always believes the Americans are inferior and that the MLS is a second rate league, at least in regards to the Serie A. I think its true to a certain extent but then, I think things are changing rapidly. Of course the MLS still has a long way to go but when you compare the strides they've made in just a few years, its incredible! In 2004 you had 10 teams in the MLS and now you have 19. The stadiums that have been built in the last 10 years or so are awesome and Italy for example, can't even dream about such stadiums being built. When you look at the Juventus stadium, that is the only one that has been built in the last 20 years. All the rest have been refurbished and are not owned or controlled by the clubs. Having shiny brand new stadiums with 15k fans looking on, of course will also drum up enthusiasm and raise the level of play on the pitch.
I've argued with many fans in the Italian threads in regards to the American players in Italy and/or in Europe and no one seems to give a fair argument. I mean I'm more than sure many other Americans could play in Italy if given the chance. There are a lot of other nationalities from lesser soccer playing nations represented in the Serie A and if they can play , I see no reason why our Yanks can not. Especially since they aren't that much better.
I agree. It just takes trust in our players, and then building a relationship with the teams/confederation/scouts.
I do believe I've participated in some of those, It's seriously infuriating. Most Italians I know are a pretty negative bunch in general. You have a similar background to me being American and having lived in Italy. So you watch both, I don't think MLS clubs are producing players close to Italy on a technical level (a few exceptions aside) but the gap is closing and it will become more comparable in the coming years. Then of course attendances, potential revenue, etc. etc. The MLS has more potential then Europeans give it credit for, not just Italians.
I must say you can flip that too, Italy isn't what it was in the 90's but the way you hear people talk about Italy is like it's post apocalyptic football. I can think of a few clubs that aren't traditional "big" clubs that our young Americans would develop into class footballers if they signed. You only have to look at a club like Pescara. They field some of Italy's better prospects and they play in Serie B.
Like some have said I think more players would have to go to Italy for things to change. What DiB is doing at Roma, heavily marketing in the states hopefully will eliminate some of the biases.
Then of course if players like Dempsey move to Italy, who is well respected by the football community, it might inspire others to seek out moves to Italy.
I know the foreign EU quota has a lot to do with it but the argument can also be used about English, German and Spanish players in Italy. I'm not sure if its the language or the thinking or what it is but they rarely do all that well and very few signed in Italy in the last 20 years since they opened the flood gates. You had Hateley, Francis, Rideout and Platt in the late 80's and early 90's but the last one before Beckham's loan to Milan was Ince at Inter and no other English players has played since. You had Irish Robbie Keane at Inter for maybe 3-4 months but he was gone by Xmas and I can't think of any others. Oliver Bierhoff was a good one but other than him and Klose, I can not think of any others from Deutschland and I can not name one Spanish player who ever stood out. If anything Bradley so far is doing better than many of those Spanish players that I'm sure very few people can name.
Well back in the late 80's/early 90's famously Milan had the three Dutch players Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard and Inter had the 3 Germans Klinsmann, Matthaus and Brehme. I always thought that was interesting.
Then of course Roma have Rudi Voller around the same time. He was one of my first favorite Roma players growing up.
I don't think most people realize that there actually is a rivalry between Italy and Spain. Similar to the England v Germany rivalry. For years the competing styles were really apparent which I guess created animosity because both sides thought they played football the right way.
I think that's why players never really left their domestic league for Spain/Italy. Think about all the great Italian footballers, most of them never played in Spain. Guiseppe Rossi is the top scoring Italain footballer in La Liga which says a lot.
You only have to look at the reaction in Italy to the Luis Enrique hire and how little rope he's given.
Christian Vieri in 1997–1998 scored 24 goals for Atlético Madrid. Panucci went to Real Madrid with Capello as did Cannavaro , Zambrotta w/Barca. In January 2003 after Fiorentina's relegation to Serie C2, Moreno Torricelli went to Espanyol and there are a few others here and there but that's all I can remember off the top of my head....
There have been a few, especially in the 90s
Deutsche Nationalspieler im Ausland, WM 1990 bis EM 2004*
Rudi Völler AS Rom 1987-1992
Thomas Berthold Hellas Verona 1987-89, AS Rom 1989-91
Andreas Brehme Inter Mailand 1988-92
Lothar Matthäus Inter Mailand 1988-92
Jürgen Klinsmann Inter Mailand 1989-92, Sampdoria Genua 1997
Thomas Häßler Juventus Turin 1990/91, AS Rom 1991-94
Karl-Heinz Riedle Lazio Rom 1990-93
Stefan Reuter Juventus Turin 1991/92
Jürgen Kohler Juventus Turin 1991-95
Andreas Möller Juventus Turin 1992-94
Matthias Sammer Inter Mailand 1992
Oliver Bierhoff Udinese Calcio 1995-98, AC Mailand 1998-2001
Christian Ziege AC Mailand 1997-99
Here are the ratings from La Gazzetta dello Sport for Atalanta 1-0 Chievo:
Moralez: 7 (chosen as Atalanta's best player)
Colantuono (coach): 6.5
Thereau: 6.5 (chosen as Chievo's best player)
Di Carlo (coach): 5.5
The comment with Bradley's rating: "Tried to construct, but received little support."
I mentioned the 90's but haven't seen any since other than Klose at Lazio.
Kevin-Prince Boateng. Though, he's not the typical German that would come to mind.
Boateng was born in Germany with a German mother but his father was from Ghana and he elected to play for Ghana. Not sure why but I don't think in 2006 Klinsman wanted him to play for Germany even though he was on all the youth teams so he chose Ghana.
That's why I said "typical" German. But his brother on the hand, he's played for Germany numerous times.
I think Klinsy didn't select KPB in '06 due to some incidents that happened at the youth level, the U-21's. IIRC, KPB originally turned down Ghana in '06 but relented after not being selected by Germany and seeing a small future with the German team but didn't make his Ghana debut until '09 or '10.
Point is , very few German's unlike the 80's and 90's are considered to play for Italian clubs. Not sure why as its easier now as they are EU citizens to come over but clubs aren't really interested any longer in German players.
He chose Ghana to play at the WC 2010, and ended his international career a few months later with 9 caps.
Boateng had just 21 Bundesliga games in 2006, only 8 of them being full 90 minutes. Nobody discussed his name at that time.
Simple. The German engineer is smarter than the Italian designer. They butt heads and Italians think the German engineer insults their intelligence.
He declined to play for Ghana in 2006 as he still had hopes to play one day for Germany but don't think he was ever considered by Joachim Low so he elected to play for Ghana in 2010. Not sure why he wasn't considered for the senior team though as I didn't follow him when he played in Germany.
This might be true. It took Germany maybe 7-8 years to be re-built after the bombings of WW2 while it took Italy 15-20. That may have something to do with all the Italian holidays , however...
Also many Germans don't leave Germany since they think the Bundesliga is a very good elague (it is) and they get paid decently.
Here's all the current Germans playing outside Germany according to transfermarkt:
Aside from Klose, I see 2 players in Italy in the first two pages: Alexander Merkel at Milan and Giuseppe Gemiti (???) at Novara.
I think it might have something to do with it. Why leave if you make just as much at home? Giuseppe Gemiti is of Italian origin and has been in Italy for 10 years. I believe he has a dual passport Italian & German. I liked Alexander Merkel at Genoa but I don't think he has played much since he came back to Milan in January.
Speak of the devil, Prince scores for Milan!
I wasn't able to get the full ratings from La Gazzetta dello Sport for Cagliari 0-0 Chievo, but this is the one for Bradley:
Mite be as much a criticism of the managing as the player.
Perhaps it took West Germany maybe 7-8 years. The east had still not completely rebuilt when I was there in the 80's.
Of course I meant West Germany wasn't even thinking about the East. Although from what I heard recently, the eastern part of Berlin as opposed to the west anyway, is a lot newer and rebuilt since the 1989 reunification...