Well, I think most of us would probably really like to have McNair as the I/O and a local identity for a potential MLS team here. But at this point I just don't see why McNair would do it. Under the operative documents for Reliant, he has five dates at Reliant reserved for his use as non-Texans events. He's found that he can run a nice little soccer business at Reliant by using those five dates for InterLiga, USMNT and USWNT friendlies, Copa de Tejas, etc. He can bring in five soccer events a year and do reasonably well. Why would he want to negotiate with the Rodeo and the Sports Authority to add enough dates for MLS, so that he can draw 15,000 people each time and take on all the overhead and other expenses associated with running an individual team? And yes, I know that you can imagine that an MLS team would average 30,000 or 40,000 people here. But that hasn't happened in LA, DC, or Chicago, where they have very well run MLS teams in large soccer markets. I obviously think highly enough of Houston to live here, but I don't see anything based in reality to lead me to conclude that Houston would double or triple the attendences of the best-run teams in MLS.
Anderson, There is usually a thread over in MLS N&A about T.V. ratings for MLS. I know the league tracks this topic very closely. They list the ratings for all the MLS based cities and then they list the ratings for all the NON-MLS based cities. Houston has always been #1 or #2 (with Seattle me thinks) in the later catagory. That is a FACT. Those numbers ARE NOT the local Houston Spanish speaking Latinos tuning in to ESPN2 on a Sat. afternoon. Those are the "English speaking crowd" whatever color they might be. The numbers watching MLS are at a higher level than the people from the two cities on T.V.!!! There's another FACT. These are locals in my book, who love MLS and want a team of their own to support. Not to mention that Houston is not LA, DC or Chicago. The beautiful game for some mystical reason really has a grip on the people of our city. Its not one community or that community...its all these supporters that can come together if the team is set up to celebrate what is so kick a$$ about South Texas.....our food, our music, our friendly ways and how our kids like Pierce, Quill, Akwari, Dempsey, Alvarez, Arnaud and Gardner approach the beautiful game. That's one huge plus right there...our local talent. Houston bleeds the jogo bonito...someone needs to let McNair sink his teeth into these FACTS. An let's not forget that if these MLS watchers (and factually we know they are there) get to spend their time in an Air Conditioned environment that adds a whole new degree to why I think Team Houston could blow away the standard MLS average. Oh...another fact is the the Commisioner of MLS, Don Garber, has always stated that, "MLS is not complete unless a team is in Houston." So its not a matter of IF and WHEN, its a matter of WHO wants to set this powderkeg off and be the first owner in MLS that has a true cultural love and support of its city's people. One more fact...the payroll for the Texans last year was $94 million. So next year about the same, then next year and so on. So as numbers go the ROI for a $10 million investment into MLS based on the previous FACTS and a new way to fill a Stadium that sits empty from March till August looks very solid.
I'd like to agree with your conclusions, but... I've seen the good ratings for MLS in Houston, too. And so probably has McNair, or at least Rootes. You're right that they're very good. But they're very good in comparison to ratings for MLS in other cities. Even though Houston's ratings for MLS on espn2 are often better than the ratings in existing MLS markets, the numbers are still quite small. The Houston Chronicle publishes a box on Page 2 of the sports section that provides the top 10 ratings in the Houston area for both over the air and cable sports programming. I forget which day of the week or if they do it every single week, but you'll catch it if you read the sports section every day. I've never seen MLS in those top 10 ratings and the lower rated programs tend to get rather low. When even a really good rating by MLS standards still doesn't crack the top 10 in your market, then it doesn't support the argument that an MLS team would avarage two or three times what the best manged MLS teams in other good markets average. (Side Note: The Chron doesn't indicate if the ratings are only for English-language broadcasts or if they include the Spanish-language broadcasts. I suspect it's only the English-language channels because I don't recall ever seeing the Chivas v America superclasico or El Tri games, although I suppose it's possible that they don't rate well either. But at any rate, that's a different argument - I just wanted to point out that I'm not sure if the Chron's reporting includes games on Spanish-language TV.) Well, you've tossed a couple of factual references into that comment that we can all gladly agree with - i.e., we have a number of area guys in MLS, we have great food. But your argument is that Houston would blow away attendances in MLS markets like DC, LA, and Chicago. I've been to all those places. They have good food and reasonably friendly folks, too. They also have large populations, suburban soccer markets, Hispanic soccer markets, and well managed, competitively successful MLS teams with strong local roots and identity. Yet, they don't draw what you think MLS would draw in Houston. You acknowledge that your argument is somewhat based on mysticism. I don't think McNair - or most of us, actually - would make many business decisions on mysticism. Faith is a lovely thing, but few people would build business plans on it. I agree that attendances in Houston would be better with a/c than attendances in Houston without a/c. But that point still doesn't establish that Houston would blow away attendances of other MLS markets that have generally tolerable summers even without a/c. I also think that Houston will get an MLS team at some point in the not too distant future. But I don't think it'll be owned by McNair for reasons I outlined in my earlier post. I'm not sure I follow you here. I'm not trying to be obnoxious - I'm just not sure what you mean. (Sorry.)
Ratings are small but grow every season right? Top 10 ratings for teams over 80 years old or teams that might be just 8 years old. That's comparing generations of viewers to just the first decade of viewers amigo. I say mystical on how CLOSE Houstonians are to the beautiful game. Its in our culture in a very powerful sense. That's what would make....or does make...Houston such a strong soccer market on every level. Many of the best run MLS franchises don't have the knowledgeable fans like Houston does. Isn't it odd to you that a city like Houston DOESN'T have an MLS club. Everything is in place minus the I/O. The sense of cultural attachment to association football is what IMHO McNair has never been enlightened to. Having A/C GUARANTEES the ticket paying customer the same reliable setting time and again....that encourages confidence in the enjoyment of actually GOING to the match rather than watching from T.V. if it raining that day..i.e. die hard Revs fans would be there in a rain storm but the dads/kids crowd might just be content to watch the match at home. Guaranteed atmosphere and a good time season after season from Day 1 IMHO can only lead to the 30K-40K that is very possible in Houston by season 5! When the Houston Texans started their website back in 2000-2001 there was a comparison with what Reliant would have in relation to what Oiler fans had with the Astrodome. One listing that stood out for me was how the Texans listed that Reliant was "MLS compatible in width and length"...it didn't say FIFA compatible but MLS compatible. A small but very powerful sign that whomever built Reliant had the foresight to see a MLS club playing at Reliant in the future. Since McNair spends $94 million on the players bankroll alone I would gather that taking the $10 million plunge into MLS and whatever the operating costs for the first DECADE of exsistance would still not equal what his Accounts Payable in Salaries for just ONE year of NFL output is. $10 million is alot to you and me Anderson but to Billionaires looking for new investments into such a ripe market like Houston its a good deal for future Return On Investments. Again, when the leage commisioner is meeting with you and asuring you that Houston is a goldmine for MLS success, it takes a very pessimistic nature to say "no thanks, not for me Don." I hesitate to think that men like Bob "I could buy NASA" McNair were ever pessimistic in moving to make more money. IMHO I think McNair has just not been told the whole story on Houston, South Texas and our closeness to the beautiful game. Since we both agree on the fact that one day Houston will be in MLS...again its the question of who has the vision and up front capital to reap the rewards.
Well, sure, but our argument is about whether attendances for an MLS team in Houston would dwarf attendances in other MLS markets that have similar characteristics as well as well-run, successful teams. I only pointed out that MLS ratings are still small in response to your argument that Houston's good ratings mean that an MLS team here would have 30-40,000 attendances. You attempted to use ratings as support for your argument. I just pointed out that the ratings don't actually support your argument. I have to disagree that markets like LA, Chicago, DC, and others don't have fans as knowledgeable as Houston. Do you really believe that? I lived in the Boston area for about three years in the late 90s and found soccer fans there quite savvy. Other big, diverse cities in MLS also have cultures with a profound attachment to soccer. Houston is a great place, but it's not unique in these characteristics. I think you underestimate the passion of fans in other markets and misapply the value of a/c here. I agree that a/c means that more people in Houston would attend games than would be the case here without a/c. But that modestly reasonable assumption still doesn't get you to 30-40,000. It's pleasant enough during much of the MLS season in most markets, especially in Southern California. They still don't get to 30-40,000. I recall that reference as well. I also recall that the documents governing the use of Reliant Stadium provide McNair with a right of first refusal on MLS in Reliant through the end of 2005. The documents further provide how signage, suites, and so forth would be allocated in the event that there's an MLS team in Reliant. Clearly, McNair wanted to at least give himself the option of putting an MLS team in Reliant. But he hasn't done it. I've suggested a few reasons why in an earlier post above in this thread. McNair has certainly considered MLS in Reliant. Ok, now I understand where you're going. Sorry that I didn't get it earlier. But you're still wrong. First of all, if anyone tries to tell you that MLS is a "goldmine" - at least in the foreseeable future - you should keep your hand over your wallet. Additionally, just because McNair has an investment that makes a ton of money isn't a reason why he would invest in something that would, at best, make a modest amount of money. He already has a soccer business that's doing ok with the dates that he's already negotiated under the terms of the operative agreements. He has no good reason to take on another soccer business that would cost him more to just open the building than he's likely to make on MLS attendances. He'd also have to negotiate for the extra dates, so you have to include the costs of whatever else he'd have to offer in exchange for the other parties agreeing to amend the operative agreements to give him more rights. The bottom line is that you'd have to convince McNair that 15,000 people in Reliant about 20 or so times a year makes business sense. Do you really think that at least Garber, Hunt, and Kraft haven't tried? And you don't think that Jamey Rootes has any interest in expanding the soccer business that he runs for McNair if he could? Am-ééé-rica. Aguilas! Am-ééé-rica. Aguilas! Am-ééé-rica. Aguilas!
There you go again being so dang pessimistic with the 15,000 figure. The actual bottom line is to convince McNair that in year one attendance falls in the 15-20K range...ok that's cool and the gang. Yet you are staying focused on the complete opposite of what I have been saying for over a year. Houston is a different market than any other city in the lower 48 and Canada. If 15,000 is all a city can look to pull for a crowd...then why expand at all? Why are cities like San Antonio so uppity??? Why is Toronto or Rochester so excited? Are they that happy to see 15,000 and be content that's the best they can hope for? Or do they have a VISION??? Oh that word. Where leaders look down the road and say to an investor, "ok its a risky venture and sure we can maybe only pull 15-20,000 in Houston Texas." But what IF this bold step catches on in footie crazed Houston??? What if South Texas 1836 is able to bring many colors and cultures together under the Spirit of Texas and its citizens passion for the beautiful game??? What IF by year 3 attendance is 20-25,000 like in D.C. or for L.A.G. Then by year 5 1836 brings home a MLS Cup...attendance spikes for the 5ith straight year. By year 7-10, after a decade of laying the cultural significance of what a goal scored by South Texas 1836 means to the very diverse and passionate followers of soccer in Houston. The proud and very believing followers of 1836 show up in record numbers for MLS Home attendance. Again, because as I see and you obviously don't, South Texas truely has a Spirit that has been branded into our land. The beautiful game, as played the world over, lets others see into our culture by watching our lads play the game. If that connection of passion by the fans and the willingness of the players to return that in the form of goals and alegria....call me crazy Anderson, but I'm certain 30,000 to 40,000 is realistic and that's why Garber claims MLS is not complete without a team in Houston. Garber, IMHO only, see's that potential also. I've been going to pro soccer matches in Houston since 1980. I have no doubt about Clutch City and what will be the best run and supported MLS club hands down!!! Oh yeah...about Jamey Rootes expanding the soccer business that he runs for McNair if he could. The answer is no. I know the man personally and he has never made a move outside what he set up with the Copa de Tejas and what came to him via SUM in the form of the InterLiga. The U.S.A.-Mexico match in 2003 was an idea of an Argie business promoter who split some of the profits from that night to have the Texans pull it off at Reliant.
No, Celt, I don't think you're crazy. I just think your ideas about Houston being so mystically different from DC, LA, or Chicago are wrong and that McNair has had plenty of time to consider all the factors (other than the mystical) to which you refer in your posts above. There's a difference between vision and fantasy. The former has a basis in reality, the latter only in mysticism and faith. I'd love to be wrong and see McNair decide to bring MLS to Houston. But he's obviously considered MLS since at least May 2001, when he and the other parties executed the Tri-Party Agreement. McNair has had discussions with MLS, including Garber et al. Of course, I'm sure you're right that no one's made an argument to him about the "Spirit that has been branded into our land." We can both agree on that much. I doubt many people rely on references to any such "Spirit" when they're trying to persuade a rational business person to invest money. But if you think that McNair hasn't invested in MLS because no one's explained the mysticism of our "Spirit" to him, then, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
Is there not a Spirit to Texas concerning American Football? Is there not an additional level of passion for High School gridiron in Texas compared to other states in the Union? Houston had an NFL team and a very rich man decided the market wasn't worth his investment. Why come back to Houston with another NFL team? McNair and most followers of sports in the U.S. would recognize that in Texas, there is something mystical on how serious and passionate Texans are for, IMHO, the second greatest form of football. If someone like McNair can see that its a sure bet that Houstonians and others in South Texas desire another NFL team to support why couldn't the same be said about the beautiful game? I believe that Texans have a beyond normal connection to the American code of football. Beyond normal, is that a better way to say it? Is that better than mystical to explain my belief to you? I also believe that with the many cultures and many natives in Houston and South Texas that have a beyond normal connection to the beautiful game, Houston and our area of North America has a special desire for a soccer club that we can sink our teeth into and really get behind. I don't feel that McNair has ever sat down with a local Texan that loves both forms of football and had a good talk about the two and how the two can exist in Houston's sports landscape. O sea, will soccer ever replace gridiron? Not likely! Will the MLS ever be bigger than the NFL? A chance. Would an MLS team in Houston go out of its way to disrupt the natural order of things in the the religion of football in South Texas? Yeah right. I, again IMHO, feel that the two can mutualy coexist under the same owner, same stadium and both draw from the same sense of passion and Spirit that resonates very strongly with the avid sports fans of our land.
I think SA landing a team will hurt Houston. But ya'll got the NFL team.... I don't know about the MLS expansion plans but an ideal format would be a 18 team league, the worldwide standard. Maybe Houston would have a chance then...
Fantasy Island was a great show! Well, you may have heard of places like Ohio or Western Pennsylvania where they're pretty passionate about their high school football, too... It's not a question about the level of passion of soccer fans in Houston. It's a question of how many of them may exist. Your argument is premised on the belief that Houston has about two or thee times more soccer fans that would support MLS than markets like LA, Chicago, and DC. Those markets consist of very large, prosperous, diverse areas that enjoy well-managed, competitively successful MLS teams that have won multiple championships and established connections in their communities. LA and DC have been at it for all ten years of MLS' existence, Chicago for eight years. None of them have reached the attendances that you predict for an MLS team in Houston. This is a great town, but it's an article of faith - and nothing more - to suggest that it's so different from LA, Chicago, and DC that a team here can reach the attendances you predict when very successful teams in those large markets have not. You can only make that argument if you really believe that Houston has two or three times the soccer fans who will support MLS than do LA, Chicago, or DC. I just don't see how anyone can find that proposition plausible. That's not pessimism or optimism. It's reason. But, wait, I have an idea, one might even say a vision... How about if you convince your personal friend Jamey Rootes to set up a meeting for you with McNair so that you can explain your views to him. Having never previously considered the economics of MLS in Reliant Stadium, McNair will jump to his feet and proclaim to have seen the light. So moved by the Spirit of Our Land, he'll then appoint you as the GM. And I'll be the first in line to buy season tickets.
Re: What were the Houston Hurricanes colors? Keep in mind Anderson, there are triple the number of avid footie fans and more importantly die hard sports fans that love their city's teams but are not close to the beautiful game living in those cities and they don't come out and support. Some might be snobs, some don't get "sawker" but most have no cultural connection to their city's soccer franchise. O sea, a Redskins fan doesn't "get it" that when D.C.U. scores...it's a cultural celebration of ALL that is sporting in D.C. The world's language of association football has the unique talent to translate in a globally appreciated form how a city's people are. like a country's National Team, the squad reflects how a nation approaches the jogo bonito, sports as a whole and that's nations' sports psyche. Our men on the National Team for example, they grew up playing a multitude of other sports like baseball, basketball and gridiron...yet they excelled at soccer. When the Yanks score every sports fan should be proud cuz again soccer speaks to others in a language the can easily understand. On a club level, no MLS management group (save Peter Wilt) has made that cross over connection with their local die hard sports fans on how to embrace La Alegria. French ledgend Platini said that,"a nation's National Football Team represents a way of being, a culture." IMHO this philosophy has a trickle down effect to the club level. Bigger in the U.S. where, unlike other nations, our soccer clubs are so far apart and realy have the chance to speak for that part of the country and how does its citizens follow sports in general. This is why Team Houston could be the first MLS side to do it right! And pull the BEST numbers in support. The cultural connection is still lacking in our nation's league. If you watch other leagues, it is obvious that MLS still has a galactic step to take in marketing the meaning of La Alegria and what it represents at the club and country level. I wish it was that easy. Last time I was up at the Texans front office was last July. My experience with the Houston Hurricanes sure is a blessing from Jesus. Moreover cuz I was in my early 20's and the Latino owner was a very hard core futbol man! Without that hands on knowledge of trying to grow a USL franchise in Houston, I doubt Jamey would have warmed up to me when we first met after a Texans home game. You've been in Houston for a long time right? What did you think of our city's USL team? Do you miss going out to see live footie and cheering for a team with Houston on their jersey? Back in the late 90's one of the guys from BigSoccer had a supporters club going...horns, confetti and real joy in just supporting our small D-3 club. I wish those days could return so bad Anderson. Ain't nothin' like live footie at a quality level. The last thing I did with HHFC was to sign a local white boy that played at San Jac. Some scouts from Tigres of Monterrey made their way to Delmar, liked what they saw and wanted to bring him down to Mexico for a trial run!
Re: What were the Houston Hurricanes colors? Again, you base your response on the belief that Houston is so different from LA, Chicago, and DC that MLS could reach attendances here of two to three times the magnitude achieved by those well-managed teams. Even Peter Wilt wasn't able to reach those numbers in Chicago. And I don't think that's because Chicago lacks some magical quality that Houston, mysteriously alone among all these markets, posseses. Well, I think we've officially reached the Beat a Dead Horse segment of this argument's lifecycle, certainly much to the relief of everyone else who reads this forum other than you and me. I was joking above, of course, but if you make your pitch and no one buys, then you could draw some reasonable conclusions. As I've indicated in probably every post in this discussion, I'd love to see McNair invest in MLS. I just don't believe it's likely for reasons outlined earlier. I'd love to see any MLS team in Houston and would welcome any investor who survives MLS' due diligence. I lived in the Boston area in the late 90s, which allowed me to make it out to a lot of Revs games in the first few years of MLS, as well as down the road for a few DCU games. It's great to go out to Robertson or Reliant (or even La Porte HS ) to enjoy live, top flight pro soccer teams from MLS and other countries several times a year. But it's obviously not the same as having your own team in your own country's top league. Hopefully, we're not too far from having such a team, but who really knows at this point.
Re: What were the Houston Hurricanes colors? Amigo mio, You completely skipped over the part where I said that Houston can be the first MLS team to get it right from the start! That's the big difference my man. Team Houston can and will pull those attendance numbers by year 10 of their exsistance IF....IF...the club is smart enough to avoid doing the classic American mistakes that have plagued every MLS club with no exception. What MLS team has marketed La Alegria correctly? I see Section 8, el norte and the Fort and doesn't it look sad on T.V. when those sections look like they are out of place. Those die hards know what their there for. Just yelling til the Alegria is delivered, while soccer moms look on with disdain. Read this on the 'soccer mom' effect http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3568004 You make these MLS teams sound like they are run in the best way possible and that their inablity to sell out their stadiums in no fault of their own. I guess you think the USSF is a well managed Federation also. The USSF has failed to market a team in Red, White and Blue correctly. Is there any hope for our National Team to average 40K? Is it the public's fault that most have no clue what our men are playing for? You feel that its the people's inability to show up in larger numbers where as I feel its the FO's fault for not telling larger numbers of people what the beautiful game bleeds. Again soccer sells soccer, be true to the diverse population of Houston and IMHO they'll show up! Las Vegas tried to market itself as a family destination in the 90's and the revenue dropped off. 'Sin City' tried to market itself to the masses for what it isn't, rather than let the masses understand without a doubt what they are. Vegas returned to its blood and guts and they learned to avoid being loved for what their not over being hated by many for what they are. Soccer at its core has always been the ultimate ghetto sport that celebrates the common man's place to teach his son how to sing and cuss. Yet in our nation, MLS is still marketed as a destination for soccer moms and soccer nerds that couldn't tell you the first thing about their city's other sports. Again its the complete lack of understanding what cultural connections should be celebrated by MLS teams and the USSF around the nation and the complete neglect of the power and pull of La Alegria. You're right Anderson...who knows at this point what will happend in Houston. That's why I'll keep praying that we get an owner that is wise to the past failures of MLS marketing, loves the genuine uniqueness of South Texas and loves to give the common man a place where he doesn't feel out of place to sing songs of heritage, cuss at the ref and yell at the visiting goalie!
No, Celt, I didn't skip over that part. It's the same argument you've made in every post in this discussion - that Houston is magically different than the markets that have proven successful in MLS. So Chicago and DC got it wrong from the beginning? Tell us exactly what Chicago, DC, or LA should have done differently from the beginning that would now have them at 30-40,000. I'm sure Peter Wilt would enjoy learning from you what he should've done differently.
Re: What were the Houston Hurricanes colors? As an active member of Section 8 for five seasons and a native Houstonian (lived there for nearly 30 years), I also pray for hardcore fans to be able to "sing songs of heritage, cuss at the ref and yell at the visiting goalie!" in Houston. We do that in Section 8 and we get the entire crowd involved in some songs during the game. We chant and sing the entire dang match. And we do some damn fine tifo too. My position is that if Houston couldn't get up for Oiler games at the dome in order to remove that damn black out rule every freaking Friday afternoon before home games, then what in God's green earth makes anyone believe that town will get up enough fervor for soccer. And I'm talking the Luv'Ya Blue Oilers and the 1990's Playoff Oilers. And that was NFL Football, Texas' national sport. This ain't Europe or South America, and even in those areas most soccer matches are played in front of half-empty stadiums . . .small stadiums too. Sure Real Madrid, Barca, ManU, Boca Jrs and other big money teams sell out a lot, but the Colon, Santos Laguna, Club America, Lyon, Bologna and the Hamburg's of the soccer world do not, and those are soccer crazy locations. I like your spirit Celt but I have to agree with Anderson here, and I've read all of ya'lls banter. I don't see Houston doing better than Chicago, DC or the Gals in creating a traditional soccer atmosphere for club games. Houston can't even do it right for their new NFL team, they sure as hell won't do it for MLS. I go to several Bears games and Packers games and tailgating and revving up fans in those stadiums is a whole world away from Reliant. Good crowds for MLS, I hope so. Euro/Argentine atmosphere, nah. I love the idea of San Anotnio and/or Houston getting MLS, I've had the good fortune of residing in both cities. But I hold very little hope in either creating more atmosphere than the best MLS has right now. Hell, I'd like to see Houston get MLS and at least have a Timbers Army atmosphere (which is far better than several MLS supporters).
Yep Stan. I know 15,000 seems more achievable, but the fans in Houston will be just like the soccer mad fans in every MLS market. In Chicago we have a boat load of Wisla Krakow fans, Bayern Munich fans, AC Milan fans, Real Madrid fans, ManU fans, Club America fans, Morelia fans, and many more I'm sure I'm missing. Those fanatic supporters by and large do not translate into Fire fans unfortunately. Hopefully with Bridgeview and the continued growth of MLS that will change, but the reality is there are tens of thousands of soccer fans in all MLS cities, only a fraction of which are MLS fans. Houston has no track record of supporting professional American soccer, not even during the glorious, razor thin history of the Hurricane. I hope Houston gets a team, I just don't think it would provide better support than Chicago, DC and the LA Gals. And if Mexican support is what some are counting on, Chivas USA isn't a promising indicator. I see that even the Texans are already having some issues with fan support. I have some friends who have cancelled their season tickets and their PSL's. Cancelled? Man, that's hard to grasp since that town just got back into the NFL a few years ago. That just doesn't happen in markets where a sport is really supported. I know, because up here the Bears sell out every season, the Cubs sell out every season (even when they suck) . . . crazy! So I guess I'm saying that if Houston has a hard time supporting football, where an overwhelming majority of the 3 million people that live there claim to be fans, what can we realistically expect from soccer?
If a team is put in San Antonio and not Houston, one can make only one conclusion: San Antonio is more cosmopolitan than Houston. That's how Garber must see seeing that he won't shut up about "cosmopolitan" Toronto is.
Ticket proces would have to be reasonable -- e.g., not HDC levels. This is a very low cost of living town and much of the market that would potentially attend MLS games in Houston doesn't have huge amounts of disposable income. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you have reasonable ticket prices at Reliant. I certainly haven't reviewed their financials to determine what they need to charge 15,000 people to even pay for the costs of opening the building, but I know from personal experience that tickets for both soccer and college football games in that venue are usually substantially more expensive than comparable seats for comparable (sometimes even identical) events at Robertson or Rice Stadium. In any event, we're still no Toronto.
I don't put much stock in Hurricane attendance. Now, if the question is whether Houston support would be better than other MLS markets, then yeah, there's no evidence to support that (especially the Galaxy. They'd be doing hella good to outdraw the Galaxy). If the question is, would Houston support be good, well, the TV ratings (Houston and Seattle consistently have the best ratings among cities that don't have MLS clubs, beating some that do) at least give us reason to hope.
The Tennessee Spoilers have an owner that would raise ticket prices each year regardless of the teams colapse in performance. He that shall not be named threatend to more the Houston NFl team to Jacksonville in 1988. That had a tremendous impact on ticket buyers. Us native Houstonians had our collective hearts ripped out of our a$$es so lets not use NFL attendance as a measuring stick for a quality run MLS franchise.
Dee plane, dee plane! Well, now that we're talking about a 20 year time frame for your 30-40,000 claim, we're finally taking some steps to get off Fantasy Island. And I've never claimed that there's much of anything that DCU, LA and others could've done differently ten years ago to have us at the sorts of attendances you're talking about. That's your agument, you know. So it was DCU changing their logo that stopped them from reaching your astounding attendance levels? You're right that these MLS front offices would probably never have figured that one out. But of course they don't have the enlightened leaders who know the things that you know that would take pro soccer in this country to the promised land. I agree that MLS made some silly mistakes in the early years. I watched the quite a bit of that early goofiness in person at Foxboro. But if you think that MLS would be enjoying massive attendances today if only they didn't initially have a clock that counted down or the shootout, then I suppose that helps explain how you got on the island in the first place. On the bright side, it's a lovely place, isn't it?
Anderson, you sound like one of the dudes I know that my club team has keep explaining the handball rule to. You just don't get it do you??? Do you honestly think that if Rothenberg had MLS in line with FIFA world standards from day one that MLS would just have MARGINAL attendance increases than we see now? C'mon hombre! Regardless of all the immigrants that have laughed MLS off, think about all the native boys that look at their nation's league with disdain for having its head up their collective a$$ for trying to mess with the beautiful game to attract newcomers to the sport. Its one thing when the league has pros with the first touch of a rapist, that's hard enough to have potential fans run out and by a ticket. But its a salt in the wound insult what the league officials did. That takes a decade, at least, to shrug off in the memories of a die hard soccer fan. With FSC, FSWE, Telemundo, Univison, Galavision, GolTV, DirectTV and the like people in the U.S. can have access to hundreds of games each week. How has MLS league officials combated this conflict of interests??? They haven't!!! MLS as a SI has yet to set the game day experience apart from what a footie fan can get at the comfort of their home. That's why supporter sections stick out at the stadium. Their atmosphere is vital to the success of the ticket buying public. Are you going to deny that if more Joe Blow sports nuts were exposed to the way Section 8 or BarraBrava celebrate their city's colors that their might be a new avenue in growing the ticket buying public??? Game day atmosphere is what will set MLS apart from any other North American pro league. IMHO it has felt like these past 10 years MLS has focused on the soccer mom/youth team crowd and neglected to let U.S. Div-I pro soccer to bleed a more "adult" atmosphere. IMHO this is no Fantasy Anderson. When Houston gets our MLS franchise, what needs to be done right off the bat is for Team Houston to state publicly where MLS has failed, be brave and say publicly that its the die hards that this team will be built around and finally declare with confidence what the footie public of South Texas can expect differently when buying a ticket and coming to Reliant Stadium. Ultimately Anderson, if Team Houston can back up these words with mixing the Houston and Texas youth talent that continues to come up within the ranks of U.S. Soccer and a come all, noisy, chanting, futbol throwdown as an atmosphere.....call it what you like boludo.....I'm just a native Houstonian that grew up playing ball against guys from El Salvador, Mexico, Nigeria, and Iran...heck from everywhere! I'm from Southwest Houston and that's what guys from my barrio would buy a ticket for! O.K...I'll take Movies with Will Ferrell for $200 Alex.
Magical realism and soccer... I get that passion isn't the same thing as a rational argument. I also get how to use the Enter key to separate paragraphs... You, however, still don't seem to get that other markets in MLS have had competitive, well managed teams for years and still draw what they draw. It's been a few years since MLS abandoned the shootout and other gimmicks. Do you really think that the legions of potential MLS die hards that you envision still haven't noticed what sort of atmosphere is available in Chicago, DC, and LA - and has been for some time now? Do you really think that they aren't joining in larger numbers because they're still bitter about the shootout? So you think that the way for an MLS team in Houston to be successful is to appeal only to die hards. How many die hards do you think there are? Do you really believe that MLS can afford to write off the soccer moms and families? I know about soccer passion. My family is from Brazil and I've been to games at the Pacaembu and the Morumbi and know quite well what the sort of atmosphere that you're imagining is like. But even in those cases, there are plenty of families and people comfortably enjoying the game in their seats. The die hards - the real hard core torcidas organizadas - are still a minority in the stadium. They create most of the atmosphere, but they're not the only ones who help pay the bills. The cameras focus on them because they look and sound cool, but most of the people in the stadium aren't in those groups. If you really think you know how to do it up right and that no one else running teams in MLS does, then you really need to get your friend Jamey Rootes to hook you up with McNair. For real. The way lots of people get jobs they want is to get a friend to set them up with the boss. Then it's up to you to make your friend look good by making a good pitch for yourself and impressing the boss. So go for it, meu amigo. Lead the way.