NSR: "If you can't join them, beat them...literally."

That topic is getting tiring...

 

People are free to believe whatever they want, no matter how ludicrous it may seem to others. Sure you went to school to learn facts, in theory. Everyone knows you went to just play hookey and spy on the girls in their change-room after Phys Ed. The socialization of a person is done subconsciously, you aren't given classes on how to be a good Democrat or Republican. Have you seen the German movie "The Wave"? It's based on a real experiment done by an American teacher in the 60s. Have you never paused in your life and thought "Wow, I think exactly like my teacher did".

As I said, parents have the right to have their children educated the way they see fit. If they want religion incorporated in it, then they should send their child to a religious oriented school. In Ontario, we have separate Catholic schools that are also supported by the government just like the public schools. Many non-catholics send their children to Catholic Schools as well. But if you want religion totally taken out of education because of citizens of every background, then you must take it out of everything, no more "One nation under God" or "In God We Trust". But immigrants must acknowledge they are moving to a Christian nation and cannot expect to live without the predominant faith making an impact on their lives.

Indeed, but some teachers don't realize how much their own beliefs rub off on students. I can't believe how many people I went to school with still echo the personal beliefs our teachers espoused in class years ago, without their own reflection on the matter. I'm not saying evolution shouldn't be taught, I'm saying both should be taught in their own respective places. Creationism can be taught in World Religion classes; Evolution in History or Science classes.

 

wish i can give you more than a rep jadger....

 

People are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want - I aggree 100%. The thing is, it is easier to make sound judgment when you are presented with facts.

 

It all depends on how those facts are presented though. You can easily only feed only certain facts so that all students will come to a certain conclusion, even though that conclusion may be outlandish given more facts.

For example: Germany invaded a corrupt military dictatorship in 1939 to reclaim lands that used to be a part of Germany and where significant German populations lived. That corrupt military dictatorship had successively invaded and annexed parts of 4 of its neighbours in the previous 20 years. Britain and France declared war on Germany. When Germany was defeated, it lost over 25% of its land to communist dictatorships and the population was forcefully expelled or killed. Many of the German POWs were abused and used as slave labourers until 1953, hundreds of thousands never seen again.

Given only those facts, one would have to come to the conclusion that Germany were the "good guys" in WWII. Of course that's not the case, but one needs to give context, not just facts. And who is to have the power over deciding what are "facts"? Many "facts" for one person are disputed by others.

 

Lol...really?



My point is;

 

Agreed. However, most evidence (and my own classroom experience) indicates that teaching critical thinking skills takes a lot of personal attention and requires a fairly broad curriculum, and this is more expensive than shoving kids through a lot of standardized testing.

Also, quantitative reasoning is easier to teach and can be standardized more effectively than qualitative reasoning, so liberal arts skills get squeezed out to the detriment of our society. It's sad that many materialists undervalue the importance of humanities classes and many idealist only want their children exposed to 'the right sort' of qualitative conclusions and attack critical thinking as a secular humanist plot.

 

That was then. This is now.

Teachers now don't DARE bring up personal beliefs. Entirely too risky. I shy away from any and all topics regarding religion or politics. But that is mainly because I don't know shite about either! LOL.

Not entirely true. Some would find it shocking my childhood experiences in the 'good book'.

 

I don't understand why it's hard to believe that while Religion can promote great things and be morally enlightening, it, more often than not, promotes intolerance and propagates divisions in society. There's not much of a middle ground when it comes to the societal importance of Religion, so why bring that shit to school? And I'm just going to be an outright asshole in saying this, but I have yet to meet an academic, scientist, or just any person with a significant level of education(or intelligence for that matter) who believes in creationism.

 

thats the spirit

you might try to get out a little bit more

 

You believe women were created from a man's rib because God didn't want him to be "alone"?

 

I don't think it's exactly about his beliefs. His point over here, and I agree with it, is that sadly we do find "educated" people who believe in the letter of the religious texts. More than a few of my teachers, including my project adviser who strongly recommended I read some chants to improve my concentration and "awareness of the world".

 

I don't see a problem with believing in a creator and evolution.

There has to be a creator, or else how did anything come into existence in the first place? Please don't say the "big bang", because that energy had to come from somewhere.

Simply go to a museum of natural science and you'll find evidence of evolution.

 

Agreed. My issue is when people try to argue the fact that Jesus rode a dinosaur to work because they think we coexisted at one point.

 

Not all women....only the first one. You think I'm stupid or something?

 

Every time I think about the dogma of creationism I recall the movie "Inherit the Wind" with Spencer Tracey.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/



Really a good watch.

 

Ummm... Charles Darwin was very much a Christian, even after creating his theory of evolution. And excuse me for being an outright asshole, but I doubt you have actually met any academics, scientists or anyone with a significant level of education. I don't think the would enjoy watching Jersey Shore with you.

Not all Christians believe in a literal interpretation of every word of the bible. There are many allegories in the bible, for instance the Good Samaritan.

 

are you going to stone me if i say yes?

or maybe you can guys get in a circle and burn all the religion books and believe because they dont make sense to you?

 

Hahaha, wow.
I sincerely apologize if I have offended have your religious sensibilities, I think what I said was a bit too much. But let me tell you something about myself. My father was a mathematician, a professor at a decent sized university. I have been surrounded my entire life by academics and people of diverse and highly skilled backgrounds. You could say I was born into "intellectual privilege" or that my comments above are the result of liberal brainwashing and that I'm just a myopic idiot with zero interactions with non-polarizing religious folk. What you cannot say is what's been quoted. You've somehow concluded from the comments I've made about some football club in Bavaria that I spend my days watching Jersey Shore with guido's. I've only ever seen you not directly insult a select group of people (mainly the older member). So f*ck you and your borderline xenophobic bullshit, only an atomic retard would bring up something about immigrants and them having to conform to a "Cristian nation" when that wasn't even the point of the f*cking debate.

 

I'm sorry, I did not realize that Jersey Shore was such a touchy subject for you.

Why is the faculty of an university automatically assumed to be liberal and atheist? Because your old man and his mathemagician friends were liberal atheists? Come on! That is some of the weakest deductive reasoning I've ever heard. It is also ironic that you would say they are a diverse group of people but then immediately afterwards claim that everyone of them is a liberal atheist. I'm just going to ignore your childish attempt at baiting me by calling me a xenophobe. I don't want to drag this discussion through the mud when you start to Reductio ad Hitlerum.

But don't worry, I believe every word you've said.

 

Your reading comprehension skills would be admirable if they belonged to a butt-worm or a dead sperm. And why is it so important to believe if you think the account of my own background is self- contradictory in regards to the argument I'm making? Have the common courtesy to keep your insults consistent.

 

No, I do not think we should stone believers and we should not burn books, any books - but honestly, when people try to push these "stories" as facts and science in school, then it gets a bit messy.

Religion is a faith based belief and they should not get confused with what is actual science. If people want to embrace a particular faith to make their lives "richer"....that's great, but those that want to push it in schools as history is doing a disservice to future generations that are unable to distinguish between the two.

 

Lol...not you, Greg...but some of the wackos on Sunday morning TV.

 

You don't understand a single word I said but my reading comprehension skills are bad?