True but that is irrelevant in terms of what we are talking about. And Messi was the one who scored the winning goal....with his chest.
But that is true of any player. Even Pele and Maradona had times when they weren't world class, particularly towards the end of their playing careers. To use a quote from a famous movie "every dog has it's day" (quick trivia: which movie is this quote from?)
I think Messi's club career is already more impressive, because he is playing in Europe, not Brazil's regional championship. But I agree about the WCs, he will need to win 2 and not just win, but also put up some stat numbers (goals + assists).
Messi already has more impressive club career than Pele. Continental Championships - Messi 3, Pele 2 National Leagues - Messi 5, Pele 0 Intercontinental Cups - Messi 2, Pele 2 Minor national/continental level Cups - Messi 9, Pele 4 Goals in national/continental level competitions - Messi 291, Pele 88
\ FACTS (not like your plain BS words) Messi 5 ligas < Pele 10 Paulista Messi 2 Copa delrey < Pele 6 taca Brazil Messi 3 UCL > Pele 2 liberatore (thanks to a freeride 2006 of Ronnie and Etoo) Messi 2 Pichichi << Pele 11 Topscorer Messi copadelreay Topscorer 2 < Pele 3 taca Brazil topscorer Messi 4 UCL topscorer > Pele 1 Libertadore topscorer (thanks to 10 worldclass team mates)
The comparison of Pele and Messi in clubs is unfair. At the time of Pele, Brazil had only Taça Brasil and later Robertão (other format, big difference as today) as national championships and Santos did not give due weight to Copa Libertadores in same editions. There were no national tournaments like Copa do Rey and the Copa do Brasil.
I am talking of FACT ... no imagine no guessing and latsly no "HOPING"\ no Bull$sh!t like A$$ talking \ Do not worry I will be still around ... and DO COUNT (in 4 more months time???) and yes keep COUNTING... lol
OK let me summarize: 1- FACTS of Messi fans boys: he "will win one this season" and "by the time he will retire he will have more impresive career" 2- best defense from fan boys: Noway, Bull$h!!!!t ....and "Pimp" LOL yeah right = please continue your NONE SENSE standard to another HIGH level Iwill continue when Messi wins HALF of Pele's stuffs = Bye bye
I'm pretty sure Pele hadn't won everything he ended up winning when he was only halfway through his career, right? Messi still has the better part of a decade to rack up more stats and trophies. As long as he doesn't get severely injured, it's almost certain he'll have had an all-time great club career by the time he hangs his boots up. He'll probably have had a mighty fine career with Argentina too. Again, we're talking about a player who is 25 and still in the middle of his prime. It's not like he's in his mid-thirties.
You're being intellectually dishonest here; the Paulista was quite obviously the most important league-based title for clubs from São Paulo state because it was the only one in such a format and therefore it should be regarded as a direct equivalent of national leagues (until 1971). We can argue about the quality compared to modern-day La Liga, which in my eyes isn't that big of a difference; I'd have La Liga slightly above it for a couple of reasons, but it's disingenuous to claim that the Paulista was much inferior because it was state-level, as many of the greatest Brazil NT played there (and in the Carioca). Another thing: the interstate Rio-SP tournament was of a level much higher than anything domestic nowadays, it would be like a European Super League with only the best teams, and in that Pelé also shined and won on many ocassions. James: what's your view on the quality of the Brazilian club level in late 50s/60s/early 70s ? For me, late 50s/early 60s it was the Carioca > Paulista, but Os Santásticos (and also Palmeiras) changed that in mid-60s.
In 500 hundred years when we are all playing Futebol in the fields of heaven...... Messi will be talked about as the greatest player of his generation having broken all world club records until that date. Messi will be talked about in the same sentence as DeStefano or Puskas. Maradona will be talked about as a great player of his generation having single handedly helped Argentina lift the World Cup twice. But PELE, in 500 years, 1000 years, will always be talked about and considered as the GOD of Futebol, the greatest of all time.
Because of injury, not actual downplay on the field, which is what I said. Holy crap I'm starting to understand why newspapers lie on every head lines.. you guys only read what you want, selective reading is a really bad thing guys
You're quite spot on there ... and most younger fans (especially non Brazilian fan_) were CLUELESS about Paulista championship. (hence calling it "2nd rating regional sh!!!!t ) Back in early 20th century, (1910-30) Campeonato Paulista was one the the oldest and indeed was the very FIRST PROFESSIONAL CLASS competition founded in Brazil. 1- Due to the "premitive trasnpostation and poor economy at time" State championship was remained in local Sao Paolo state until Pele's era. 2- Up until 1971: A true Brazilian league serieA was forming following the European standard across the nation. (this is "post Pele era") ============================================================ Now for you question which one was the best championship Paulista and caricoca (50-70)? Paulista was obviously more "prestigious" and comprised of mmany greatest teams in Brazil: Santos Sao Paulo, Pameiras, Paulistano, Conrinthians ... and these were "stronger" than the likes Vascogama Bortafogo Flamengo in Cariocca at time ============================================================ Taca Brazil (50-70) was another complex structure which was equivalent to a "small scale Liberatore" or semi- UCL type as it consist of Paulista top teams and others from Argentina, Uruguay, Chile ... as well
I just want to quote this, to see if it sinks on the minds of the people that have no clue about the history of Brazilian football, During the 50s 60s and even 70s teams from paulista and carioca which nowadays are little tiny clubs used to win international tournaments against european teams. Different times man.. Vasco had a tough time in the Carioca, went to Europe and beat Real Madrid that was steamrolling everyone at home.
Pay attention in what context I mentioned the game. Not necessarily because of injury. And whether it's due to injuries or not, it still results in actual downplay on the field. That's all we have, judging players based on their plays on the field. The point is that every player has his period when he is not world-class, yet or anymore.
Bottom line: Paulista Championship was regional competition, not national competition like La Liga or all other modern top league. Therefore, 5 La Ligas >>>> 10 Paulista Championships. And you can say whatever you want about Messi's teammates and "free rides", but Pele didn't win any of his trophies by himself!
But Real Madrid beat the Santos of Pele, the most famous of all Brazilian clubs. That's why you really can't make too many inferences from one-off matches.
Bottom line it is a waste of time with clueless people Liga 05 and 06 were free rides for Messi UCL 2006 was a free ride for Messi - thanks to Ronaldinho (MVP), Etoo (best FW) and Deco (best MF) and rijkaard (coach) so take off those 3 trophies (so only 3 ligas left), messi had a an EVEREST mountain peak to climb up to 10 championships ... LOL