If Xavi and Iniesta play for Madrid...

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by AguiluchoMerengue, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

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    Keep dreaming. You must be what in your 20's?
    PELE is the God of Futebol. There was never any player or human being like PELE, and there will never be another PELE for the rest of time. Period, end of story.
    Guigs repped this.


  2. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

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    WHAT?! You have seriously lost it.....Messi has had 2 UCLs as free rides? Which ones are those? And what about WC 62 for Pele? He should've been kissing Garrincha's right foot....LOL.

    As for the Intercontinental Cup, in Pele's days the final was played over two legs. I wonder how many goals and assists Messi would have if he played over two legs vs Internacional, Estudiantes and Santos.
  3. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

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  4. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    No I'm thinking World Class is a player that distinguishes himself above all other competition, a player that will be remembered.
    A lot of time the very best in the world doesn't mean he's world class, it could mean he's on top form.

    Form is not permanent
    Class is


  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    Estudiantes almost beat them..
  6. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    To you, maybe. For many, he is not the god of football.

    Anyway, I don't know what's so horrible about comparing him to other players. I mean, after all, he was a player with his strenghts and weaknesses, not a "god".
  7. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    It's all about generations, every generation has their gods of football. So as generations die off, Pele's claim as the best ever will also die off. Same for Maradona and eventually for Messi.
  8. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Like, for example, Messi isn't world class - he is just on top form? Or can you give an example of a player who is the very best in his position but is not world class?

    Come on, if you're one of the best players in your position/role, you're world class alright.
  9. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    I'm just going to let this sit here for a while... wow dude just wow..
  10. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

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    No other human being like Pele? :eek: What about Buddha, Gandhi or Xica da Silva?
  11. Skorenzy

    Skorenzy Member

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    I'll give you Iniesta in the Semi-Finals then (even if I personally disagree that he was that good and certainly no "king"), but my main point was that Messi and Xavi were the only Barcelona players in that campaign on a consistent level throughout 3/4 of the games they played. Iniesta was only on his best in 2-3 games, which of course are usually the big games when all the opponent's attention goes to the actually dangerous players and when so-called clutch or big-game player myths are formed as happens so often with players in the style of an Iniesta or a Zidane who otherwise contribute not very consistently (well maybe that's a bit unfair to say on him as he was sublime when it mattered, but I feel that he's rated far too highly because of some important games when it's obvious the stage was set for him).

    ps. I'm not claiming Messi was any good against Chelsea by the way, because he wasn't: he sucked. In the Final he was no different from Iniesta for me, and I have Xavi down as MotM for that anyway. His best games were as you say against Bayern and Lyon.

    And to clarify: I have the same problem with rating Iniesta that I have with Zidane; their role and position should require more consistent output of goals/assists, because they are brilliant footballers, but their contribution is spread too thin over an entire season to ever be considered top 10 material (with a sustained period of form, a bit of luck and/or lack of contenders they can win a Ballon d'Or or get a top3 finish or a tournament MVP, but that's about as far as it needs to go IMO).
  12. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    I agree.
  13. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    No, I mean seriously: how is someone "the very best" yet not "world class", let alone "a lot of time"? Who are these guys?
  14. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    I'm pretty sure he means on the context of futebol... let's keep up our reading skills.
  15. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    what do you think Kaka is? Micheal Owen? Maicon? Suker, Shecvhenko, Alan Shearer, Jari Litmanen etc.. catch my drift? These are all players which were considered world class players, during a certain period of time, then that time passed and they were not considered World Class anymore.

    That's form, they were in top form.
  16. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Oh you meant it like that, ok. Of course some players played great once but don't do that anymore.
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    Exactly, so I think a World Class player is something rare, not something we just automatically name a somebody that's a great player but is in the prime years of his career where he'll be extremely productive.
  18. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

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    It is not "PELE's claim". It is a reality. PELE will always be considered as the greatest of all time, even afer a thousand years, just as Mozart, Michelangelo, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, etc.. each being considered as the greatest of their trait, never forgotton after hundreds of years, PELE will always be the GOD of Futebol.
  19. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Simply not true.

    If you'd alter the claim that Pele will always be considered as one of the greatest, then I'd agree. I mean Michelangelo, Franklin etc. aren't considered the best ones of their "jobs", but rather one of the bests.
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member

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    A pendulum swings both ways, that guy is on one of the extremes.
  21. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    We'll just have to settle on the criteria for being "world class" as a matter of opinion then.
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    I do NOT care of your "feeling"

    I am here to discuss of FACTS, and FACTS say no one had ever come close to what Pele achieved, from scoring goals, winning many trophies and WCs level performance. TOO PERFECT
  23. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    Are you related to Pele or something? You pimp him hard.
  24. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    By the time Messi retires and assuming he stays with Barca for at least the rest of his prime years, he will likely have had a more impressive club career than Pele. Internationally though, he will have to win at least two World Cups which will be difficult.
  25. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

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    Hendrix 5 James 0 :D

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