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Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by AguiluchoMerengue, Jan 6, 2013.
Would Messi still be the "best" player in the world? lol
My honest answer, no.
And what does Xaviesta have to do with Messi's attributes (dribbling skills, goal scoring and passing abilities)???
And you know that Xavi and Iniesta don't assist more of Messi's goals than say Alves for example, right???
He'd still be better than Magico Gonzalez.
Messi would still be a truly majestic player to behold, and still be the best player in the world. Aww... Poor Ronaldo... He has to latch onto passes and through balls from such scrubs as Mesut Özil, Luka Modric, and Xabi Alonso... His life is so hard. It is truly tragic to behold. Seriously, the fact remains that Messi's touch, his control, the ease with which he dribbles, passes, shoots, and creates, Xaviesta did not make that happen. For example, Fabregas is a great player as a false nine for Spain, he was a great player at Arsenal. Did Xaviesta transform him into some kind of paragon of football? No, he was still simply a great player, as Messi was still simply the best.
It depends on the concept of' ''best''
Messi is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, with or without FIFA premium or titles at stake. It's a much more impressive player, talented, full, among many other qualities to more.
However, the concept of'' best'' is in relation to the award of FIFA, then Ronaldo would have a great chance of taking the trophy because Xavi and Iniesta would make a nice upgrade at Real Madrid and it would have more chances to win titles.
For me Messi is the best player for a long time (I only see Neymar in a position to arrive at his level), but will not win the FIFA Ballon d'Or every year, of course ... Pele did not win all the awards, not Maradona won all prizes or Zidane or Ronaldo ...
Who would be then?
Ronaldo or Ibra.
Messi is a great dribbler, but he def depends too much on Xavi and Iniesta and the whole Barca system.
No goals in the world cup or copa america, nuff said, now if Xaviesta played for Argentina...
I think the Barca system depends too much on Messi actually.
That make a lot of sense, Spain would have won the world cup and the European Cup with Messi on it then, too bad Messi couldn't play for Spain, oh wait, they did win the world cup...
Wow... "Nuff said"... Truly breathtaking, eloquent stuff, so filled with detail and quality, comprehensively rebutting each and every one of my points. There are unfortunately something wrong with your statement. Messi takes up much more of a playmaker-esque role in the Argentimian NT, hence why his goal tallies are low by Messi standards (although he still does; 31 goals in 75 appearances) and assists a great deal more.
but when it counts, he chokes, unless Xaviniestas are around.
The entire Argentinean team was outplayed by Germany (a better team) in WC 2010 and he converted his penalty in the shootout against Uruguay in the Copa America. How is that choking? This isn't basketball where the star player can have the ball in his hands during the last seconds of the game and shoot a potential game-winning shot.
When it counts, he chokes. Strange... He didn't choke during the Olympics, didn't choke during the 2007 Copa America, where he DID score by the way. During the 2010 WC, don't even try that, he was the only attacking player even trying against Germany. His only bad tournament was the 2011 Copa And I suppose Xavi makes those runs from the halfway point to score. I suppose Iniesta helps him demonstrate sublime control of the ball. I suppose they made sure one in two shots on target he shoots ends up in the net. Or was that him?
The fact is, the idea that Messi is dependent upon Xaviesta is pure myth.
The year 2012 proved that Messi knows how to play at a high level in Argentina NT. Already made bright matches against most major NT around the world. You know, on NT, is something totally different compared to clubs ... is a much more complex than simple ''Xavi + Iniesta = World Cup, not need Messi''.
Exactly. It's not like Xavi and Iniesta are the sole reasons Spain has won everything the last 4 years.
Although, they are a pretty big one in fairness
And I do not understand this charge Messi to plays in a low team level, as if he had something to prove therewith.
Pele played in the best South American team at all times and in the best generation in the history of Brazil NT and is not charged for it. Zidane, Romario, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, all the big superstars, won their great titles playing on great teams. Speaking of NT, much better than Argentina in 2010.
The only superstar I've seen and played on a team that did not have a high level was Maradona. And yet, what is seen was a brilliant career, but uneven: not played all that was expected of him in Barcelona and in Napoli lasted until the suspension. Argentina 86 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Argentina 2010.
And Messi is still coming in the middle of his football career ...
PS: I'm not criticizing the creation of threads like this. Certainly it will be a very good discussion with all friends.
They still need a goalkeeper, defenders, other midfielders, and forwards around them. Spain has world-class players in all of those areas, Argentina doesn't.
To be fair, Neither Messi depends on XAVIESTA, and Nor Barca depends so much on Messi alone,
Barca system (include Xaviesta) made Messi excelled to his best as that "system" was built for him and worked well for his style. So not only Xaviesta but the whole Barca made Messi looked like a "Messiah"
In other hand, of course Messi got used to his Barca system of which the whole formation/tactics playing around him but not so much in Argentina team (at least prior to last year 2012 when he started finding his form with his usual position false nine)
So then, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that Messi being rated as the best in the world was simply him being in the right place (Barça) at the right time (Guardiola building the system around him?)? Or do you believe, stripping Barça from him, Messi is still the best in the world right now?
Ibrahimovic was overshadowed by Messi during his time at Barcelona, and Ronaldo? The guy that scores less and assists less despite taking more shots and getting more service and who disappointed for his NT as well? That guy?
yes, Messi is the most overrated player in history.
Barca would be nothing without Xavi and Iniesta, the same goes for Spain, the same goes for Messi.
Argentina and Messi were a big joke in the Copa America.
Not saying Messi doesn't have the potencial to be the next Maradona, but he is not there yet, and yes I rate Ronaldo and Ibra above him at the moment, till he shows he can get things done without Batman and Spiderman.
Superman would do things on his own, even Batman never really needed Robin to save the world
You're clearly trolling, but just for the Lulz, why would you rate Ibra (the guy that also chokes in CL and NT competitions and that every team he leaves don't seem to miss him) higher than Messi???