Well that meant ALOT. Brazil NT were ALWAYS among the best if NOT the best in atatck at every single WC, ... until lately! This present Argentina were >> Argentina 86 and > Argentina90. If put messi in Argentina 86, I would say MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. This present Argetina squad were at least same as Brazil98 of Ronaldo (w/o Romario) This Argentina squad were > Italy 2006 Winning WC were NEVER EASY. But at his PEAK form (Messi now >70goals seasons) plus a very good squad support, that MISSION IS VERY VERY possible!
Messi should be charged for his performance, which should be better than WC10, obviously. It would be disappointing if Messi ended his WC14 without average of one goal per match, at least, despite not being the player more closest to goal. It is possible, after all, Messi is most decisive player today and World Cup is played on playoffs. But the difference of Argentina in comparison with Spain or Germany - and other teams, note that I said that Argetina almost lost to Brazil under-23 - is very large. It is my point. Messi will play great level (obligation), Argentina has improved in last 12 months and probably will arrive in good level in competition. But winning the World Cup is extremely difficult, and I realize that many do not have this view. And about comparing Argentina12-13 vs other teams, I can talk later about Argentina 86/90. But compare Brasil98 and Italy06 is ridiculous; both teams were much better than current Argentina.
For all this, I hope that Messi has a great individual performance. That's all expect from him, and this is entirely possible.
First bold, that was my point too. Messi should pull up a great performance at WC level (the toughest) regardless if the team would win it or not! Look in the past, 1- without Romario, Ronaldo Brazil would NEVER reach WCfinal on 3 consecutive events 94-02 PERIOD - the same would APPLY to Messi. 2- Another counter example, France 2002 were reagrded as the BEST NT in the world, yet with a small injury of Zidane, the team CRASHED out in group stage with the worst ever performance of an "ex- WC winner" ! That's to SHOW how a legend AFFECTED their team Last bold, that was a BOLLOCK statement. Brazil 98 were oNLY good on paper in that team no more no less. They were a favorite to win that WC just becuase of Ronaldo and Ronario names. That team without Ronaldo FIT (in final) looked like a 2nd string team with 0-3 lost against a so "defensive team" in France. Italy 2006 were the SOLID but NOT like a team to win WC for sure. They were stronger than Argentina (12-13) in defense but much weaker in attack... So ... NOTE: Italy were ranked as 12 (out of top10) before winning the WC06. Argentina now is #3 - so much difference!
If Messi was Peruvian, he'd go out and drink a lot and have sex with a lot of sluts. Our players aren't the most disciplined bunch.
How did they (Arg '86) manage to concede 0 against Belgium (Semi Finals), 0 against Bulgaria, 1 vs Italy, 1 vs So. Ko, 1 vs. 1 vs. England (Quarter Finals) This represents the statistics of a DEFNSIVELY SOUND team. The team is better than people make them out to be
This is a key point. There were no teams that were as significantly dominant as Spain or Germany were in 2010, in 1986.
Tevez was decisive for Argentina at CA04 and the Olympics in Athens. It's been difficult for the others to be decisive since the plays all run through Messi.
I'm repeating myself but that the tournament is played in South America is a huge benefit. Historically those events are won by South American sides. The various official technical studies by the FIFA, which you can find on the internet, also identifies this and points at a number of plausible reasons for why that is the case..
Brazil and France ... but they faced off each other ... Please ... I do not CARE how you guys rate those teams *BIASED as always All I can say is FACT: Argentina now is rated as #3 in the world and are now favorite to win WC. Argentina 1986 were not in the list to win WC
Don't forget that the lower relative competition at the younger age levels would make it harder for him to develop early on which would make it less likely that, in this case, the Barca academy would feel compelled to take a chance on him. Obviously there are exceptions - Best and Weah have been cited - but it makes it a lot rarer than in a place like Argentina, where he's facing great competition early on.
I can not disagree, but do not know if it will be a decisive factor for Argentina (certainly is something important for Brazil). And there is no way disagree that Germany and Spain are far superior than Argentina. I do not see Argentina being able to support these two teams, perhaps with much defense, luck and Messi deciding. Tevez is idolized and valued, fans identify with him, even in these two tournaments that you quoted. He hasn't a solid and consistent career for Argentina; does not justify the hype. And I disagree about Messi ''overshadow'' his teammates; in Argentina, Messi is a creator.
Fat Ronaldo had the best NT team and Rivaldo as did Ronaldinho (who doesnt even belong in this conversation) Ronaldo had scholes, xabi alonso, ozil, di maria. Oh and Xavi and Iniesta only assisted I believe 8 of Messi's 91 goals last season, idiot pocho
Well "fat" Ronaldo shone in 3 WC , 2 Copa ... with 4 to 5 different Brazil teams - 97 copa was different from WC98, different to Copa99, and different to WC02 and WC06 ... - Copa97 MVP - WC98 goldenball - Copa99 Topscorer - WC02 goldenboot and silverball - WC06 bronzeboot Please no more excuses for Messi in last copa and WC. You guys have to be more positive to look forward to his performance in next WC14.
Everyone of those teams had multiple Ballon d'Or/FWPOTY winners. How did Ronaldo do in CL98-99 CL00-01 CL02-03 CL03-04 CL04-05 CL05-06 CL06-07 ?
Okay, but India was merely the example given by the thread starter. I meant of course that if Messi was from a country that doesn't have a football tradition and was playing in the Spanish league, he'd probably play for Spain's NT, and he'd probably be a World Cup champion by now.
They were in fact a very solid defensive team, and the offense was only Maradona and Valdano. But that was by design. Pretty much Bilardo's idea, very much questioned and hated in Argentina at the time. Other than Diego and Valdano he had three central defenders, two laterals who mostly defended, two defensive midfielders, and one link player on the wing. I guess Bilardo figured -rightly- that it was enough to win the Cup.
I cant argue with somebody who think Xavi and Inieta have nothing to do with Messi's success, you are not smart enought for a serious debate.
Probably it doesn't reach a culer but in 1986 there was also a greater amount of decent teams. Argentina did not meet all of them, or the best of them, but the amount of decent teams -who had a reasonable possibility to inflict damage - was greater.
No great team in the level of a Brazil 70, Netherlands 74, Hungary 58 type, but lots of very good teams, I thought. France, Brazil, Germany, Soviet Union, Denmark, Spain, England, Belgium all good teams. Even Italy the defending champion and Uruguay had tons of talent but underachieved. Argentina did not meet some of the most dangerous teams, and it's possible that France/Brazil/Denmark/Soviets might have given them trouble, but I thought they still had a tough road. Ok, easy group along with Italy, but then having the pressure of meeting a traditional regional rival like Uruguay is always a difficult task. Then came England and of course the pressures of the recent war added to a team that was very confident coming in. Belgium maybe less tough but still a difficult style to go against, they were beating very good teams. And Germany very solid and an all-time highly ranked defense. Nothing to sneer at.