Yeah, if only all those individual talents didn't play the same 2 or 3 positions. I like how you carefully structured your words in order to make Argentina minus-Messi seem as good or better than, say, Germany. "if we look at individual talents". lol If you compare position-by-position: - Germany is unquestionably stronger than Argentina in 6/11 positions (goalkeeper, back 4, plus Khedira > Gago), - 2 are roughly equal (Masch v Schweinsteiger; Gomez/Klose v Higuain) - Argentina are stronger in probably 3/11 (Messi > Ozil; Di Maria >Kroos; Aguero > Podolski/Reus/Muller) . But only 2/10 if you exclude Messi. Since you wrote "Messi has the strongest team around him", I'm not sure if this is what you meant(?)
Higuain is better than Gomez, and I would say Coloccini is better than either of the centerbacks for Germany. Mascherano goes against Khedira in a side by side comparison, and the Argie wins that one. So, Messi, DiMaria, Aguero, Higuain, Mascherano and Coloccini are all advantages for Argentina, and I'm not so sure Schweinsteiger is better than a match fit Banega. Absolutely.
Coloccini is in no way better than the German center backs Mascherano and Khedira cancel each other out Messi, Di Maria, Aguero and Higuain are all fowards. Argentina has the best foward line up in the world imo and any country will kill to have those players in their attack, but you can't win competitions with just great attacker while being average everywhere else. And with all those strikers, Messi (as he's been positionned since Riquelme stopped playing for the NT) has been playing as an advanced play maker with either Higuain or both Higuain & Aguero playing in front of him. You can't expect him to be the number creator and at the same time to be the one finishing of the occasions, so we have to accept that he'll score less with the NT. Oh and Schweinsteiger >> Banega
By the same token, Mascherano >> Khedira. Messi does not need to score lots of goals when you have Higuain and Aguero up front and DiMaria as the other offensive midfielder, he just needs to make the key plays. To me, it is far more difficult to assemble a great attacking force (which Argentina already has) than to build a solid defense.
And are you saying he doesn't make key plays??? I don't know if you watched last COPA, but if you did, have you forgotten how many clear cut goal occasions he set Higuain, Lavezzi & Aguero (most especially Higuain though) up with and they failed to capitalize on them??? And i personally don't agree that it's far more difficult to assemble a great attack than to build a solid defense. But like you agreed also, Argentina already has a great striking force, so they're not in the problem of trying to assemble one. But we can't say the same about their midfield and defense. Just by curiosity though, what do you think Mascherano does better than Khedira apart from long range passes???
Messi is the "best" player in the world, his job is to win games not to set up plays for Higuain. I'm sorry but if you cant score at least one goal against Costa Rica's u23, you are not the best player in the world in my eyes.
Mascherano is a far better man-marker than Khedira, and so far, a better WC performer. I agree with this, Messi has to win the tough matches for Argentina.
Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, and even Kaka never had anything close to a Xavi-Iniesta, and yet they got things done on their own. Messi is def the most overrated player in the history of the game.
Last time i checked, Khedira had a better WC performance in 2010 than Mascherano did. Why does Messi "have to" win the games for Argentina because the strikers (note that he's playing as a playmaker) can't finish off the goal occasions he sets them up with???
It's too easy to destroy the examples you used, but it will be of no use since you're obviously trolling.
destroy what? Kaka had Pirlo and that's it. Fat Ronaldo was all him, never needed anybody anywhere he went. Ronaldinho had Eto, I don't think Deco was as good as Xavi or Iniesta. Zidane had who? a young Henry? Anelka
Mascherano is a one dimensional player who has never even properly established himself in midfield at an elite side - unless you count liverpool
I thinks the talent of Argentina NT (except Messi, of course) is overestimated in BS (and others forums). It seems that only I have this vision.
Name me a few Brazilians (except Neymar) are in calibre of Tevez, Di Maria, Aguero, Lavezzi, Pastore and even Higuain as ATTACKER? You can also add names for other NT side by side ...
People are fond of "double standard" the issue is that when talking about Messi's greatness (with Barca) most his fans claimed he was Great CREATOR + FINISHER (a la Pele ) Messi got 23 SHOTS in WC2010 with zero % conversion rate ... that HAD NOTHING todo with "weak defense" as one claimed. Now if we use his goals conversion rate at Barca (>35%) into last WC, he would have scored at least 5,6 goals (out of those 20+ shots) - and if he DID, I am quite sure Argentina would be in the FINAL
Argentina has more talented ''attackers'' than Brasil, but that does not mean much. None of these players mentioned played a good 2012-2013 season. None of them was decisive at some point in their careers in national team. In addition, ''position vs position'' is often not a fair comparison. If you want to compare with Brasil, remember that the Brasil U-23 almost won over Argentina in June. If it was not Messi, probably would have been a Brazilian victory. My point is that Argentina winning World Cup 2014 is almost impossible, something that should not be ''charged'' for Messi as something easy or very possible, as I have read here and elsewhere. Or compare with Pelé, Maradona (even him) or Ronaldo, Messi has a mission much more difficult than they had. The only chance of Argentina winning this tournament is Messi decide on all games, and even so do not know if it is enough.