If I Hear the Word "Moneyball" One More F'n Time... : Summer Transfer Thread II

The latest I have seen on the subject is that LFC know that the asking price is €20m and are putting together a bid they think appropriate. It appears that there was an attempt to negotiate but Bologna wouldn't budge, especially given that part of Ramirez's fee (10%, not 30) will go to his previous club.

 

plus, when Suarez says stuff to Evra again, Ramirez can testify that it meant nice stuff...

 

Hamit Altintop of Real Madrid. Reds the closer club at the moment. Duo to Reds contacted him in his Schalke era.

Second club is AC Milan. duo to his experiance and versatile ability etc.

Third club is Fenerbace. Theyr techniqualy most closer club. a Hour ago I heard they evin agreed of payment to Real Madrid. after the Both club chairman mets...
They already ready to pay Hamit's own money.He wants If Iam not mistaken around 3 or 3.5 m euro.
They just hopeing to recieve BAD news about Hamit negotiations with REDS and Milan.
IF things goes good as above , Fener will announce His sign in officialy Wednesday.

So,

Its all about desicion days.

Recently Fener chairman and officials got punishment-prison. by court desicion duo to match-fixing scandal.

Well, Kuyt went there too. If they dont get ones again PK from UEFA, both player can enjoy CL football . If they get PK, that mean no European Cup games for Fenerbace.

If they get PK. They can only play local league. They have money(FB club), if European Cup games not first option to Kuyt and Altintop, than , rest is fun.

Back to the topic; What You Guys thinking about Altintop ? He is 29 years old. I gues 4 years offer or max 3 years He will recieve from ''above'' 3 clubs.

 

Oh dear I hope not.

 

Red Sox revenues and profits are well in excess of anything liverpool is generating. Their take from home games is 2-3x greater than liverpool (and that number increases significantly if they make the playoffs). The MLB has a ridiculously large television contract that gets spread around. They own their own regional sports network that kicks off huge amounts of dollars. Their commercial activities and sponsorships bring in more money, as businesses are more willing to plump up larger dollar amounts in the US than in Europe.
And the Red Sox aren't carrying salaries of the minor leaguers, those are paid by the actual minor league teams who have separate ownership, operating, and revenue structures. Our development costs are probably far in excess of the Red Sox as we have two training grounds, a first team, reserve team, 27 youth teams and all their associated staffs, and a significantly larger scouting department. The Red Sox worry about 25 players on their roster, maybe another 7-8 that come up/down from the minors, a couple of coaches, and not much more.

 

Why is signing a third striker pointless? If Carroll were to get hurt in October, Suarez is going to be backed up by a couple youth players? I think a player that is a 'poacher' such as Borini, who shares a lot of elements in his game as Mickey Owen, is exactly what we need to complement the two strikers we currently have. Owen, Fowler and Heskey were all different animals, and all did alright for us while playing in the same team.

As far as Sturridge is concerned, I would love him at 10-12m, but anything over that and we're wasting money that is better spent elsewhere.
Ramirez is priority #1 in my book. He is Riera plus athleticism, with a dash more unpredictableness. Get him, and other issues are more easily addressed.

 

When he was available on a free last year? I would have said "Yes". But now? No. A player that wasn't a guaranteed starter going to Madrid thinking he was going to set the world alight? I like a guy with confidence, but I don't like guys that doesn't know their limits.

 

i think your last statement pretty much establishes your framework for evaluating this sort of issue.

one of the things i read -- and it was actually several years old -- was that Liverpool's global fan base has not translated into the kind of revenue stream that ManU or Real Madrid's has. most NFL football franchises are far more "in the black" than LFC.

 

Your other points may have some merit, but this statement above is false. Minor league clubs have nothing to do with salaries and benefits of players, coaches, etc. They are just covering the operational aspects of their respective clubs. All contracts are with the big league club.

But I digress - issue dead.

You are dead on that we need a third striker (and why not a 4th!). We absolutely need someone threatening in the rotation for tournaments and dips in form.

 

While I certainly set myself up for that zinger, the Forbes numbers make it look like LFC is doing quite a business. Now I am sure that these numbers may not take all income (a cursory view?) into account (revenue sharing, etc.), but the numbers are interesting nonetheless.
http://www.forbes.com/teams/liverpool/
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Boston-Red-Sox_330700.html

The main point here is that we should expect this ownership group to have the means to sign quality players. I certainly hope that the Ramires rumor bears fruit.

 

The '04 Series was bad enough, but seeing those two prance about on the field after the final out at BuschII made it even worse.

Did we sign anyone from the continent yet? Or any continent for that matter?

 

Where some of the "LFC must be making more money and able to spend" holds water is on commercial revenues. Liverpool sell kits, scarfs and all kinds of stuff to a wide variety of markets. The trouble is that Adidas took a large cut of secondary sales (from what some of the Warrior numbers have been talked about) preventing a bigger take on the non-match replica products. Warrior's allowing FSG and LFC to have more control over the second tier market, i.e. the polo shirts or tops that aren't directly match worn products. But their advertising revenues, box sponsorships, corporate tie ins, and a wide variety of lucrative opportunities that the Red Sox's own are not completely tapped. Liverpool have been better, and at the forefront over the last year or so of getting some marketing deals in East and South East Asia, but they're still not fully hitting their stride in a sector that really has to improve to cover their outlay. The RedSox make a killing on corporate tie ins, and then their own TV network just prints cash. LFC.tv doesn't make a significant dent at all. they probably operate it at a slight bit above cost, and that's not certain.They don't have LFC licensed products (though I do think the LFC 24/7-esque show is a step in that direction) and they haven't had access to the Asian markets to do business in viewership.Combine that with a significantly lower take on the stadium (you do realize Fenway ALWAYS sells out, and will always demand way more for many of the seats than LFC tickets ever will at the current Anfield?) and their numbers aren't really similar.

Throw in that a lot of what profits LFC do have are eaten up by a larger roster (they have at least 60-70 staff on the books, and a major investment in training, development and infrastructure that MLB clubs don't have, when you consider much of Spring Training is privately funded by the local townships).

They have money, and I suspect that they have enough to go out and get a 20 million dollar player or three without breaking the budget. The trouble is, and always should be, that they need to get a player who meets that value and then make sure their wages aren't destroying what needs to be a solid foundation.

 

Oh, I like Ramirez. I think he's a good player. i think they might struggle on valuation, as I don't know that he's worth 20 right now (definitely inflated) though his salary packet could offset some of that larger upfront fee.

The trouble in my mind is I'm not sure he's a pure wide player. He certainly adds options in the middle (and I think he might have the ability to play in the hole or as a 2nd striker). He doesn't remind me of Riera (that's a crazy comparison, no offense) and he really plays centrally a lot more than he will ever get chalk on his boots. If they get him, and I find that they have a good chance, they need to still focus on addressing the wide position.


Oh, and yeah, goals are an issue. But you have to figure the fraction of difference between scoring and not (and they had a lot barely stay out) sometimes will play in their favor in the upcoming season. Though they do need a poacher.

 

Oh and Altintop is a decent player, but really doesn't do anything they don't have at probably what would be a hefty wage price.

 

He's not a wide player but that's ok. He'd be great playing off Suarez. And he's an offensive all rounder who drifts out wide throughout the game. Our width should primarily come from our fullbacks anyways.

 

Maybe. Considering who they have on the team sheet usually, they should go forward as they're not great at defending. I still think they do need someone who can put some flair outside. I hoped Downing could provide some, but he's either too timid or just out of sorts to do it. They need someone who can take on players and drive into the box as well as put in a good cross. That's certainly harder to find, but alas, that's one of the main needs.

 

Ever seen Downing on youtube?

 

Red Bird thanks for the laugh

 

This reminds me of the scene in Social Network where Justin Timberlake says to Eduardo: "You've read alot about me. Want to know what I've read about you? Nothing."

 

Who knew Timberlake had time to bring sexy back and convince angels and vcs to finance facbook.

 

Rumors floating that the Ramirez deal is all but done.

 

I believe you misunderstood my statement. I said it would be pointless to sign both unless we moved Carroll. By that I mean signing BOTH Sturridge and Borini to have 4 strikers would be dumb.

 

Who cares if he is not a pure wide player? Will he stretch defenses? Yes. Will he drift around the field, popping up in wide areas? Yes. Will he take a defenses focus off Suarez and open space? Yes. Will he get better in each of the next 4 or 5 season? I'd hope so as he is young and has lots of potential, and has already shown lots of ability.
I fail to see the problem.

 

sounds exactly like a younger unproven vers of maxi