Identifying Talent - How and When?

Coerver can be done in just about any-sized room. My daughter started it in her bedroom when she was 6 years old. We did it to music and filmed it for fun. She loved it. This is the video that inspired her.

BTW, I looked back at those initial videos with her recently, they are hilarious -- ball going under the bed, hitting the dresser. But she did improve.

Now we play in our office (rather large room with high ceilings). Rule = controlled juggling is the only time the ball can be off the floor and no shooting with the laces (goal = in between two bookcases). Dribbling, push passes on the floor, only light passes into goal. We adults just have to be smart and keep the breakables put away.

 

A few weeks ago I read a comment by a player who told that he was annoyed when he was a little kid that the coach he was training under did put a lot of kids in a small space and made them handle the ball and do excercises like those of Wiel Coerver. He was annoyed then because they tended to bump in each other, but now he realizes that the coach did it on purpose to make them develop the skills to manoeuvre with the ball in tight spaces.
So letting your kids do that in tight spaces is a good thing.

 

This is an important point to stress to parents. If your child is continually the best, with no competition either on his own team or on opposing teams, what dose that prove? Especially if he is way beyond them. I look at it this way - if the best player on his and the opposing team is about a 5 out of 10, and he is at least an 8 out of 10, that means he will consistently be beating them up and looking like Messi compared to them. Now put that to more realistic numbers, that your son needs to be in the best 5 out of 100 players, and he should be playing with and against other players who are also top 5 out of 100 random organized soccer players of their age group.

It's like standardized tests. I know a kid who got several perfect standardized math test scores. But what does that mean? Is he just a bit better than the kid who gets one question wrong, or is he way beyond that? You do not know how good your child is unless they start competing against players who are near their level. For us, my son has changed teams a lot because he kept being the best on his team and it was becoming less of a challenge.

Take him to the best club in the area, even if you don't think you would want to make the drive regularly. Or, convince the local club to let him play up. My son is playing up two years and it has been very helpful in improving his play and how to deal with bigger players. Most of his teammates and opponents have 50 lbs. and 6" of height on him. But it's the same thing if he were playing on an academy team of his own age group, because they select for bigger heavier players.

 

I think that sounds like it works well for your son, but doesn't mean it works well for others.

My son is the best (at least top 5) of the 100 kids in his league at U8. If he were to play up to U10 he would not be competitive, he could not dribble the ball without being overpowered, he would be chasing the action, he would be invisible. Maybe at some point he will become self aware enough to pull off what you are talking about but at his age I do not agree that playing him up has any benefit. I would rather him be confident with the ball.

I would agree that if there is a more competitive environment (e.g. an academy program) then putting him there makes more sense. I was just turned off from his first year in U8 where he was the youngest, it had a detrimental impact on him.

 

I would say first try rec, then if that isn't competitive enough, try low-level travel, then higher-level travel, then academy.

Playing up would be if the next level is not available locally, like playing up in rec because there is no low-level travel around. My son tried out for academy, but didn't make the cut. He is playing up on an NPL team instead.

On the other hand, you don't want your child to be physically hurt or down, but if he is truly a top player, he will love the competition and get better if he plays on a better team, be it his age or older.

My problem with my son's situation is that he has changed teams a lot, because he was not good enough to make a big jump at any time, until age 16. The other thing that will come into play is the dedication of your son's teammates; if he is very good, he will get mad if kids don't show up to practice or games, and that's a sign to look for a better team.

 

What did you think of the academy tryouts? Did you think they were fair, predetermined?

 

I think my son could have done better at the tryout, but also they had many tryouts (more than 10), and eventually had many low quality players trying out who were impossible to work with. They had a scrimmage against the #1 non-academy team in our state, and my son and a few others trying out did well (only time the ball was kept in the other team's half was when he was working with their mid and he passed to a teammate who shot on goal), but the head coach was absent and the assistant put in his starting eleven and gave my son and others trying out a few minutes in the first half, and no time in the second half. It was clear from what the assistant said to the players that he has wanted many of the kids trying out cut already and expressed anger that "so many had shown up" (and my son and the others were invited by the head coach via emai with the head coach expressing a lot of interest). We had heard that only other academy players got added, and every old player from their 97 team plus one from their 98 team became their U16 team.

Interestingly, they had a lot of private school players, and since those players have been added end of October, the team has done poorly (or maybe the other teams are benefitting more from their private HS players returning?), which may be expected as the team had many private school students whose parents were adamant that their sons would play varsity HS soccer and on the academy team. We would have had a lot of trouble affording the academy fees, but private school is out of the question.

Best bet is if your son has a connection to the team already. Earlier on, when my son was working with former ODP teammates that were on the pre-academy team, he did very well as they knew him and he could work with them. Later, when other kids showed up, it was clear he was put on a team with a bunch of duffers and he could do nothing with them. Other local clubs only give new players one time to show they are better than most, and that's it. At least this club had a longer process. Maybe it is because the two top academy clubs in our area recruit and don't depend on tryouts.

People say that sending kids to ECNL or academy as early as possible is just wasting money, but if you can afford it, you are staking your claim with the club. That seemed to be the case at the academy club my son tried out at (but again, he could have done better at the last few tryouts). Academy started in 2007, and they did not initially have younger teams, now younger players have more opportunties to get into an academy.

 

What do you think of Red bulls RDS training programs? Besides the training element, does it really expose a kid to potential academy tryout down the road?

 

Unless something has changed, or you have an entire team taking the same RDS session, the quality of the other players is not enough to show real skill. I know several kids, including my son, who were told that they would be recommended to try out for the academy team, but were never contacted.

RBNY and PDA both recruit known quantities, BNT players and kids they already know can play on a high level team. Some call it poaching, but technically it is not if it is between seasons or across different leagues.

 

Thanks. My son is still early in this type of process (2002), so I'm approaching RDS as mainly supplemental training to his team training (which is as far as I can tell, since I'm not there to see it, does not emphasize on the ball technical training).

 

I would say at 11/12 years old, we started to get my son up to about 15 hours of soccer per week, usually about 5 hours per week with the team, and 10 hours of outside training possibly including a second team.

IMHO, it would be very difficult for a player of that age to improve and excel depending only on team practices and games. If he has the dedication to work for at least an hour per day on footskills, and shooting if he can get to a field, that can substitute for training.

Speed, agility, and quickness training is helpful, especially if it is specifically for soccer players. He took multiple courses in footwork and shooting, with the shooting courses including videotaping and analysis. That was REALLY helpful, especially because it was a Dutch program (DTS in NJ, they are in other states nearby NYC as well) and they work on both feet. Probably his greatest strength is being both-footed, which pays off a lot at older ages when there is not much space and soccer intelligence matters more, both-footed = more choices = less predictable.

 

Last year he did the 5hr with his team and an additional 1.5hr with a local league PDP program and I noticed marked improvement even if only an 1.5hr of additional training. I chalked that up to good training and being surrounded by motivated and skilled kids. This year we're trying an additional 1.5hr of RDS training on top of the local league PDP/State ODP training. (So 3hr total supplemental or, in toto, 4 training sessions per week for one competitive match.) I thought about the second team concept, but only as a training-only player.

I agree, especially given that his team practices are not geared toward individual development. One thing that cannot be taught is self-motivation and I am happy to say my son has that in spades. So he spends at least 30 min a day outside (well when it's not 20 degrees) after school playing around with shooting against a rebounder and dribbling. While not quite an 1hr, he also has a ball at his feet at all times while indoors and attempts to juggle in tight spaces.

Also you raise (albeit indirectly) an interesting question, which ties into this thread: If I may rephrase the original question this way "Identifying Development -- How do you know if your child is undertrained, overtrained or have the just right training?" Or said another way, how do you know (i.e., objectively measure) if your child is optimally developing per given training regimen? I am assuming that this question is unique to each child. 3 hrs of soccer training a week may underserve a player that is targeting competitive level soccer, but isn't there a point of diminishing return? I thought my son developed nicely with an additional 1.5hr a week, but I am not assuming that an another 1.5hrs of supplemental training will double that developmental effort. But, there must be some incremental improvement, right? If so, I do I see it? How do I know if the incremental training is a waste of time and money. I suppose there is no objective metric.

 

At best, YMMV. NJSA-04 was not accepted originally in the academy program, and apparently TR swayed them to change their minds. PDA and RBNY are the best academies in NJ, but they also handpick their players and are less open to new players.

The best way to look for a team is to go to open practices and see what it is like. If the practices are good, the teammates are talented and good kids, the training is good, don't worry as much about their record or other people badmouthing a club.

TR himself has said that NJSA is a feeder for RBNY, and that the best players will leave NJSA for RBNY.

That being said, I am not sure how many other choices there are in that area of NJ. It is definitely worth a look, but be careful when joining any new club. Academies by default have many more scouts and coaches attending games. Kids on NJSA and MF try to play their best when RBNY or PDA are opponents, or another top academy.

 

Agree with RHRH YMMV, but we were far from pleased with them especially with younger kids. Now I know there are changes there this year so things may be better. They signed an agreement with Cedar Stars who has a generous benefactor.
IMO they are not on the same level as PDA or RBNY, not have I really seen them acting as a feeder to either. They may be better than your local club though. We found it very expensive and relying on TR name more than their results with the kids

 

Have to agree, was not impressed with NJSA04 and the only reason they are relevant is because of TR and feel there a lot better options out there for players. PDA and RBNY are by far the top 2 followed by Match Fit. The next tier all depends on the area you live in as there are decent clubs in every part of the state, one that I think is up and coming is FC Copa. Someone mentioned DTS training and have to say that my players coming back from DTS camps/ summer teams have improved a ton and they really do have great coaches there.

 

We are huge DTS fans as well and think their clinics are top notch as well as their summer camp. They don't really have teams other than the summer select teams. If you are a fan of the Dutch/Coerver methods, then this place is great very heavy ball mastery. If you are looking for a team this is not what they do

 

Food for thought: growing up playing soccer in England, I was the teams smallest player, grossly uncoordinated and largely disinterested in the physical side of the game. I only really 'enjoyed' playing soccer with my Dad whom I felt safer playing with. This was all between the ages of 5 to 9 years old. I took up kickboxing along side soccer at around 9 years old (not a recommendation, it's really not conducive to remaining injury free!) what I will say is my co ordination, balance, confidence and speed increased 10 fold. So really I didn't start 'playing' soccer until I was around 12 years old. From there I've played at a high level ever since and still compete in tournaments and leagues at 25. Noticing talent at the right time has to be on an individual basis. A new rising Italian talent was given a trial by accident at the age of 15, he just scored 4 goals in 47 minutes against AC Milan. Far too often I see players judged on their talent too young. People reach their potential in their own time, we just have to offer them the right encouragement to allow them to realize it.

 

I posted a video of my son about this time last year, and received some useful feedback, so I thought I would post a video of him from a couple of indoor games played in February.

 

I totally agree about the walls. They drive me nuts. I will be so glad to get back outdoors. I should have also explained that once their team was up by a few goals their coach instructed them that they could only shoot on their first touch, hence the scenes where there are a slew of awkward shots.

 

Sorry been a lurker on this website but i signed up today when i saw someone asking about NJ clubs. I'm new to all of this my daughter has a strong interest in soccer and i never really played outside of some rec as a child. I was curious if anyone knew anything about JPS. They have come into our area the last 2 years and I wasn't sure if they are just a money maker or quality soccer for children. There aren't many options where i live and i'm tyring not to be a club hopper but want what is best for my daughter.

 

Great advice, I appreciate it! He plays on a variety of teams, especially in the winter. His main team is with a medium sized club on their u11 top team. These are the kids that he's played with(with a little turnover) for three years. They're a solid group that play in a top division. I know people can be critical of kids playing up, but he's never had an issue with it, and I think it's been good for his development. He is challenged in games and practices, and because of the age difference he can't rely on size or speed. He also plays with his club's u10 team for indoor, and occasionally for outdoor. This group is not as strong as his team, and he is pretty dominant. Which I think is also good for him to experience some of the time. Practice moves and skills to get comfortable doing them against tougher competition. He also plays indoor and guest plays in tournaments with the top u9 team in the area. Again, he is dominant in these games, but all the kids on his team are good enough for it not to be detrimental, and allows him lots of time on the ball. And no, I didn't think you were being critical. Hearing "he's good" with no other feedback isn't very useful, so I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some tips. He attended a camp coached by the west ham academy guys this summer, and his head coach(one of the west ham academy coaches) wrote on his evaluation that if in the UK he would be considered academy caliber. So I know he's in that group of kids. But there are thousands(more? I don't really know) of kids in professional soccer academies throughout the world, and I'm sure the vast majority do not become pros. So being in that group is far from a guarantee. And who is to say that he's going to remain committed long enough to achieve it even if it was possible. And that's fine with me. But as long as he wants it, I want to know enough to help him get as far as he can. Thanks again.