Identifying Talent - How and When?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by UglyParent, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I know some parents who should carve that statement into their headboard so they see it every night before they go to sleep.

    I'm a huge UNC basketball fan. I recall a game vs. Duke where Antawn Jamison had an amazing stat line - something like 33pts, 12 rebs, 3ast. But even crazier was that someone tracked how long he actually had the ball to achieve that. It was 59 seconds. He touched the ball for 59 seconds of a 40 minute game, and did that much damage.

    That's the kind of player I want on my soccer team.
     
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  2. AndrePirloRules

    Jan 11, 2008
    This is some of my boy's soccer highlight in 2012, he was 6 years old then, It was our first attempt creating a soccer video, because some of the opposing coaches suggested and we always get commended of his soccer ability by them. I apologize for the amateurish video. Can someone critique it, we're not sure if he's good enough to play for a club level team. He's equally good with both left and right feet. He's 7 years old now, he got a little faster, footwork improved a bit and his shooting got more powerful. The camp coaches put him in with the 7-9 years old during scrimage play in beginning of the video.
     
  3. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Look at the other videos in this thread and comments on them.
     
  4. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    He's a good player with good close-control dribbling. His best attribute, though, is that he is extremely engaged and focused. That is somewhat rare for a six year old. It does tend to make players appear to be significantly better than they truly are. Put another way, he is having great success on the field in large part because he is trying his absolute best and the other kids are not. When he starts playing with and against a group of kids who all are trying their very best, he's not going to find the kind of success you see from the highlight video just by having good close-control dribbling skills. That's not so say he's not a good player, because he is.

    Although your son has good close conrtol dribbling, he really doesn't do anything exceptional with the ball other than keep it close to his feet and cut from side to side (which is great and really great to be doing it at age 6). But about 18 out of my 25 current U6 and U8 players have similar close control dribbling skills to those your son exhibits. Mind you, not all of them try as hard as you son does, so they don't all find the same level of success he is finding.

    Out of the 100 or so kids age 4-8 that I have coached, probably 20 of them fall into the "trying their hardest" bucket. Of those 20, the kids who have found success when they got a little older and everyone started trying their hardest have one or both of the following traits: (1) exceptional ball skill or (2) a combination of exceptional field sense and exceptional athleticism (primarily speed/quickness). To continue to find success at a higher level, your son is going to need to develop some or all of these traits. The one you can really control is ball skills. If he sticks with it and gets good coaching that focuses on ball-mastery and teaching advanced dribbling skills, he has a good chance at getting there.

    Having strong close-control dribbling skills is a primary building block and something very important to develop by the time you are 6-7, so he's off to a good start!
     
  5. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    This is a little backwards from the question at hand, but I'm hoping someone still monitors this thread and has some input...
    How late is too late to identify talent? I was late to the whole soccer thing with my kids and was simply happy with them being able to play and learn the game. As they got older (and better), my eyes were opened to the world of travel, premier and ODP programs. My oldest is in his junior year of HS, my middle is 13 (U14 age group) and plays MS soccer and has played travel ball while my youngest is now a U10 playing U11 premier. I figure time has run out on the junior and the youngest is on the right path, but is it too late for my 13 year old to catch with a premier team? The feedback I have gotten from a couple of clubs is that they pretty well have their teams set now. She gets tryout invitations, but from what I've seen, unless you come in displaying all-world talent, the 2 hours they see her won't compete against the hundred (or more) hours they have seen their current players. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I just dread the notion that because I wasn't versed in the soccer community early on, she will miss out on development opportunities.
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me just address this--you are right that 2 hours isn't enough, unless she's just an absolute phenom. But the trick to breaking into a new club is to not wait for a tryout. Figure out which club you think would be a good fit for her (or more than one if you have time), and reach out proactively. See if she can practice with the team. And good luck!
     
  7. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Thanks, BRF, for the input. That's exactly what I did, choosing to take the 13 YO to a U14 practice with my younger daughter's club for a couple of nights before "tryouts". They have a roster of 18 players already and after the second night, sadly the response was that they didn't have the room for new club players. I hate the idea of adding another club to my family, but that may be the course to take.
     
  8. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    I recommend that you find a club that cares most about development. A club like this might even be willing to let your daughter come out and train with the team before she has a formal spot on the roster. If she just keeps showing up at training and working hard, they'll probably find a spot for her. I assume she's a bit behind technically, so what you really need is top class technical training more so than a spot on someone's roster.
     
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  9. tkpeterson12

    tkpeterson12 Member

    Mar 21, 2013
    Indiana
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't post that much, but I did want to agree with what dcole said. My daughter (a little younger than yours) did the same thing last spring. The season had already started, but our local club allowed her to become a "training player". She didn't get to play in the games (rosters had already been submitted), but the biggest thing was the difference the training made. It was honestly visible after just the first session. I already thought she was good (that's what dad's do), but I honestly saw noticeable progress. Once the fall tryouts rolled around, we were able to get her on an actual team and have gone on from there.

    Good luck
     
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  10. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I've posted a short vid of my older son (and I go back and look at that one, only eight months later...how quickly they grow and learn is astonishing). Here's a few minutes of the six year old. The only preface I'll offer is that he hit an unusual number of posts this season. He's normally much more accurate. Interested to hear any feedback you guys have.

    #10 in red.
     
  11. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just another soccer dad not a coach or scout or anything, but what I see is a 6 year old kid who has a real understanding of how to control a ball and is developing good technical skills and good first touch.

    My advice--keep letting him play, and make sure he keeps having fun. At this age, in my opinion two things need to happen:

    1) Lots of time with the ball at his feet and the freedom to play with it;
    2) Lots of fun. Seriously, kids at his age really need to have fun if you hope he'll stick with it (and given that he's got some talent and a proclivity for the sport, I can't imagine why you wouldn't) for years to come.

    Basically, whatever you've been doing, keep doing it. Whatever you HAVEN'T been doing, keep NOT doing it. He's six; in America, playing U-little with no pressure is unfortunately the closest to street soccer a lot of kids will ever encounter. Be encouraging, be a parent not a coach, and just allow him the freedom to keep doing his thing.
     
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  12. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Wow, he's very good. Great skill on the ball and really exceptional vision and passing ability for his age. I took the liberty of looking at his U6 video on your youtube site and his progression in one year's time is pretty amazing. I coach a lot of U5-U8 soccer so I would be interested in hearing what his training consisted of during both his U6 year and his U7 year. From watching the videos, it seems that his U6 training consisted almost exclusively of close control dribbling (which is what I focus on as a coach, as well). It looks like he probably did some serious technical training between U6 and U7 and during his U7 year, consisting of a lot of ball-mastery stuff and learning moves like the stepover and scissors. Can you give some details? Thanks.
     
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  13. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He can play to bad he is not playing with and against players that are as good as he is. From the video he does not look like he is playing with and against good players.

    Next time you make a video and he passes the ball keep shooting. I want to see where he goes after he makes a pass.

    He likes the flank because there is more space to advance on the flank. He misses at times because he try's to shoot from there.

    He scores most of the time when he cuts inside the field from the flank. Remind him to try and do that.
     
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  14. This is what Earnest Stewart says about this:

    Question of Joey van Alphen
    “Is there a big chance that a type of player like Adam Maher emerges from our Academy again?”
    Answer by Earnest Stewart:
    “Our Youth education in the past years has been doing an extremely good job. When you look at our selection, a third of that exists of self educated players.
    Adam Maher on the other hand is an exceptional talent. That kind of player only emerges once in so many years from your own Youth education. At least I can say that at the moment some pretty big talents are present, boys with a huge potential. Whether those players can reach to the level of Maher is not yet possible to tell. Even with Maher for a time it was a question whether he would be able to survive at AZ. Because of his smallish length and physic he sometimes was on the bench in the Youth too. Just because of that he developed strongly in playing smart soccer, spotting spaces and the right way of running free. Only around his 15th or 16th he because of that made an enormous growth spurt as a soccer player. The boys that trumped him before physically were lacking in smartness to stop him. Often enough only at the end of the education all aspects converge. It is up to our present talents to make the same steps.
    Besides we since a few years work with a different educational view with the Youth, even more focused on becoming aware of the job (skill set? FSF) of top sporters. The first batch that has totally completed that trajectory is the present AZ U17. They have more luggage than those before in that category. That hopefully will help for a higher quantitative and qualitative contribution of the Youth Academy to our A selection.
    Questions you have you can email to vragendirectie@az.nl
     
  15. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Thanks brf and dcole, for taking the time to watch and comment.

    dcole, I'd say the improvement you're seeing is a combination of things. First and foremost, over the summer he played pickup nearly every weekend with big brother's teammates. I saw a TON of difference between June and September in how quickly he recognized and reacted to situations on the field. And of course, playing with and against kids bigger, faster, and stronger than him, he had to respond by making sure he was sharp with technical skill and quick to get rid of the ball when a pass was there.

    Secondly, we (I am assistant coach on his team) have stepped up what we expect from the players this year. We have stopped helping them know where they should be for goal kicks, corners, etc. If they aren't where they are supposed to be, they get burned. We have begun to put (very mild) punishments in practice srimmages for crowding the man with the ball. I felt like Bailey had the ability to help with some of this, so I put some responsibility on him to find open teammates, to reward them when they are in the right places. Boy, did he ever respond.

    Again, thanks for watching and for your comments. They are most appreciated!
     
  16. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Thanks nick! Competition steps up in the fall, when he'll progress into our Academy. He will play with and against solid players at that point.

    I have a ton of footage showing his movement. It's very good. I'll try to post a few clips that demonstrate. Your comment about cutting inside to shoot is spot on, and I'll pass it along. Trying to coach him to know when he can take that one extra, insurance touch.
     
  17. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    You make no mention of ball-mastery work. He must be doing that though, right?
     
  18. mdc00

    mdc00 Member

    Jan 8, 2009
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing I've learned is that you're picking a team, not a club. Now, they may be linked. The club may have a philosophy that it wants all of its coaches to impart. (Many say they have such a philosophy, but somewhat fewer actually ensure that it is applied consistently across all their teams.) But at the end of the day, your daughter is playing for a given coach on a given team, and just because the team at one club is right for one of your other kids doesn't mean that another team on that club is right for your daughter. (Nor does it mean that the same club will necessary continue to be right for your other kid in future years.)

    So I'd consider other clubs.
     
  19. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Sorry, yes. 20-30 minutes, I'd say five days per week. Honestly, he and his brother do it. Most of the time in our living room. They will begin practicing a few skills, and it will usually devolve into a "scrimmage," where they are trying to beat one another using those skills. I'm convinced little man would rather beat big brother in the living room than anybody he faces in a game.
     
  20. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Well, yeah, that will do it.
     
  21. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Your wife doesn't get mad when they dribble the ball in the house? :)
    I am in my 70s and I still work on my foot skills. I do it in the house so my wife gets annoyed with me. She tells me get out of the house and play. That is why I do it so she tells me go :)

    Do they ever do rainbows in the house :)
     
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  22. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I'd be lying if I said it was her favorite thing in the world, but she's very gracious in her acceptance of the fact that she lives in a house full of men ;)

    And we have pretty high ceilings in our great room, so rainbows are okay. For now.
     
  23. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After I broke the living room window for the second time, our futsal games got relegated to the basement, not as much fun when there is less that you can break, also not as much control needed. :)
     
  24. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    We're finishing a fair amount of bonus space that we left unfinished when we built our house. When that's done, the indoor games will be moving up there just like your games went to your basement. The goal is currently our front door, which has a small window in the middle. When the nine year old hits one good and clean on the laces...well, mom and dad are hurrying to finish the bonus space.
     
  25. soccermom79

    soccermom79 Member

    Mar 6, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I'm the mom in the house, and last November when the hours of soccer in the yard were being cut short due to weather and light, I decided that there was no reason we needed our dining room table(we eat in the kitchen), and moved it to the basement, moved a couple more pieced of furniture, and since then our living room/dining room has been an indoor soccer field. It's been a year, and we've only broken one window, so I'd call that success! It's a great space for games, juggling, technical training, etc.
     
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