Ideas for MLS League Design [Superthread] III

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Sport Billy, Nov 2, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha yea, NCAA football needs a shot in the arm! Pro/rel can finally get people interested in those games:D
     
  2. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who says just for football? Gimme pro/rel for every sport!

    I want to see Ohio Wesleyan or Messiah climbing the ranks in men's soccer!
     
  3. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yea those programs will LOVE switching from regional conferences to national leagues for EVERY sport. The Athletic Departments can just take all the added traveling budget needed from the scholarship fund! Or just buy planes!!!
     
  4. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who says because men's soccer wins, that every sport has to move up? Or, vice versa -- losing makes every sport move down.

    There are enough leagues and such that make it feasible. I'm in favor of the concept. I know it won't happen, but I can dream.
     
  5. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not every sport is basketball/football. Almost all sports lose the school money, and regional conference play save traveling expenses. These schools usually bus the kids for these games. Taking 25 athletes/coaches on a bus ride 300 miles is less expensive than a 3000 mile plane ride. The athletic department doesn't have infinite amount of cash, they aren't going to be able to go to the university and say that 10 of their 30 sports just moved up in division and now have to play a national league so they need millions of dollars more for travel. They will just cut sports and/or scholarships. And soccer is exactly the kind of sport that would be first on the chopping block.

    Its one thing to be in favor of a concept, its another to understand why it is unfeasible.
     
  6. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand it. I also understand why it is unfeasible -- more dealing with NCAA money and power than anything with schools and their budgets. Who's to say that a promotion/relegation system doesn't include an "option" to move up (i.e., Eredivisie style).

    If this "regional conference" were taken into consideration, then we wouldn't see NCAA DIII schools having conference members in Kentucky, Texas, and Colorado (which did happen). Heck, even the NCAA could help these cost-saving measures...IF they wanted to. One of the most recent moves, Northern Kentucky University from DII to DI. They had an awful time choosing a conference, and sure enough, the NCAA did nothing to help it or ensure an easy transition to a conference that makes logical sense (Horizon or MAC, for example).

    I also know there is plenty of money floating around NCAA...so, these things can happen. And, all NCAA schools get revenue sharing opportunities; which means, that can help offset a lot of costs for particular sports. So, a Messiah gets moved up to DII, guess what...there's a HUGE Pennsylvania DII conference that is pretty simple to move into. There is absolutely no guarantee that any team that is promoted or relegated would have to move in this so-called "national league" that you are claiming exists.
     
  7. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Think they're already doing this... see "Creighton, Big East Conference"...
     
  8. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You think every PUBLIC university is going to be able to switch any sport from a regional to a national league in a given year because Creighton plays in the Big East? I'm not saying that no school could handle it but there are 100s of schools that you are now asking to potentially take on national travel for their swim team or tennis team where before they were taking buses. In the end, most schools either couldn't do it or would just need to cut programs.

    I like the concept of pro/rel but if you are going to implement it into a system that doesn't already have it, then it needs to solve a problem not create larger ones.
     
  9. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is this "national league" that you talk about?! Not every DI conference spreads itself out like the big 6 (or whatever they call themselves now). Frick, every collegiate division and association is essentially a "national league" since the chances to play anywhere in the US exists.

    There are 300-ish DI schools...and many times they can align themselves decently. They could definitely align themselves better if NCAA does their job in managing the transitions.

    It terms of promotion and relegation in NCAA, we don't really need to worry about "most schools" or even "most programs," since the majority won't have to worry about being promoted/relegated. Most will continue playing within the division in which they continue to play in. And truthfully, public universities probably stand a better chance of making the switch more than most private schools could (especially those that are DII or DIII).
     
  10. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    If Nebraska saw an advantage to playing football in the Big East or ACC over the Big 10, they'd change over and likely be approved in a heartbeat, travel be damned. I'd always thought state schools had bigger budgets than most private ones, anyway...

    The swim team and tennis teams have little to do with these decisions... and yes, collegiate soccer isn't popular enough (aka "revenue generating") for pro/rel... although Tulsa University's soccer team will soon enough be playing conference games against UConn and a non-conference against Creighton, which makes no travel sense at all...
     
  11. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This argument only works if, for some reason, we can't increase MLS indefinitely. But, since we don't give any shits about balanced schedule...
     
  12. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you have it backwards. The Big East was just relegated to the kind of conference you don't need to care about.
     
  13. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A very good basketball and soccer conference though.

    I for one don't care for college football, revenue generating or not.
     
  14. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know why I love these so much...

    This is what I think this league design can accomplish.
    1. Cover most major league markets in the US
    2. instead of having an 'MLS 1' and MLS 2' which would devalue some franchises, divisions become faux leagues
    3. single table/balanced schedule within division
    4. home/away MLS cup
    5. no more added games. The total max games within the competition is 40, the same amount a team can play now
    6. An elimination of playoffs (replaced by a 'premier league')

    (fill in the blank sponsor) MLS

    Pacific League Atlantic League
    1 Dallas Chicago
    2 Houston KC
    3 Portland Toronto
    4 Seattle Montreal
    5 Vancouver Columbus
    6 San Jose Philly
    _________________________
    7 LA 1 NY
    8 LA 2 DC
    9 Salt Lake NE
    10 Colorado NYC
    11 San Antonio Orlando
    12 Minnesota Miami
    13 San Diego Atlanta
    14 Phoenix St. Louis
    15 Sacramento Indy

    MLS - (28 games) home/away within their division. The top 6 teams are 'promoted' into a premier league
    MLS Premiership (10 games) - Top 6 in each division (12 total) enter a second competition in the fall. They play home/away again. Top team from each division goes to MLS cup.
    MLS Cup (2 games) - Winner is MLS Champion.
     
  15. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you don't want to devalue some teams, but you want 18 teams to just stop playing with 4 months left in the season?
     
  16. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure why you'd think they'd stop playing with 4 months left. They would play 28 games. Right now the max amount of games an MLS team can play to win MLS Cup is 40 games. This would be the same. Right now playoff teams could play an extra 6, under this set up 'promoted' teams could play an extra 12. It would be more and weaker teams would loose 6 total games (34 to 28 game regular season) but they wouldn't loose 4 months. They'd basically loose October. The 'promoted' teams would play Oct/Nov with the final first week of Dec like now.

    I don't think this would devalue franchises in any way. Once you create a second division that an MLS team would start in from the beginning of the year you would be hurting your team. It would hurt ticket sales, sponsorship, and TV deals. Its just a tough sell in the US with a 'minor league' mentality. This way every team will always start day 1 in D1, they won't ever have to go to sponsors or fans trying to sell something for a recently relegated team. That is the issue that no franchise owner will ever except.
     
  17. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're losing 10 games. I don't know what I was on that made me think that months were two weeks long...
     
  18. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For most clubs who do not have 'post season' games, they would looking at a 28 game season. That is 6 fewer than current seasons and it would reduce the home season ticket packages from 17 games to 14 games.

    We played a 28 game season in 2002 and 26 games in 2001. Basically all this does is expands the league out to the point in which conferences are big enough that you can have a single table home/away league season within your division. And it replaces the knock out playoffs with a new mini-league or a hex group.
     
  19. Khkevin

    Khkevin Member

    Sep 16, 2012
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only 28 games.... :(:(:unsure:
     
  20. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. Khkevin

    Khkevin Member

    Sep 16, 2012
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that really sucks if it does happen. I know the schedule problem, but I feel that MLS can start games in Febuary or play in retractable stadiums, if the league has the money. I am against the winter schedule, which skips the summer months for soccer. MLS does have competition with other soccer leagues. If our players don't play enough games, I don't think we will have competitive edge. Also, less games will mean less potentital revenues.
     
  22. tallguy

    tallguy Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    MoCoLand, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would affect the league' national television/cable packages as well as affect game day & season ticket sales. I just don't see it happening.
     
  23. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like I posted MLS owners have actually met about a 28 game season. But the proposal I had wouldn't really effect TV deals. Overall the league would still be delivering the same number of total games. Basically the season is shorter and the 'post season' is longer. For a TV network they are only thinking about the number of hours of programming, the cost to produce that programming and the amount of ads they can sell in that programming. Since entire competition would be same length and over the same time it wouldn't really effect them.

    We also have revenue sharing when it comes to game day revenues. So as long as the total competition games are the same, it shouldn't really kill the teams that don't advance. In the end you'd only be reducing the number of home games by 3.
     
  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I envision

    -28 teams in MLS split in two conferences: West and East.
    -30 teams in NASL split in three conferences: West, Central, and East.
    -80 teams in USL, split in four conferences: Atlantic, East, West, Pacific

    My model...forgive the cheesy nicknames, but I was bored.

    MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER:
    West:
    1. Los Angeles Galaxy, 2. San Jose Earthquakes, 3. LA Empire (Chivas rebrand), 4. Seattle Sounders, 5. Portland Timbers, 6. Vancouver Whitecaps, 7. Real Salt Lake, 8. Colorado Rapids, 9. Sporting Kansas City, 10. FC Dallas, 11. Houston Dynamo, 12. San Antonio Scorpions, 13. North Star Minnesota FC, 14. St. Louis Athletic

    East:
    1. New York Red Bulls, 2. New York City FC, 3. Philadelphia Union, 4. DC united, 5. Toronto FC, 6. Orlando City SC, 7. Miami Vice FC, 8. Atlanta Legion, 9. Chicago Fire, 10. Columbus Crew, 13. New England Revolution, 14. Montreal Impact

    NORTH AMERICAN SOCCER LEAGUE:
    West:
    1. FC Edmonton, 2. Sacramento Republic, 3. Omaha Outlaws, 4. Austin Lone Star FC , 5. El Paso Gauchos, 6. Las Vegas Quicksilvers, 7. San Diego Toros, 8. Arizona United, 9. LA Aztecs, 10. San Francisco Bays

    Central:
    1. Indy Eleven, 2. Cleveland Stokers, 3. Ottawa Fury, 4. Nashville Olympic, 5. Birmingham Iron, 6. Detroit Arsenal, 7. Milwaukee Bavarians FC, 8. Pittsburgh Riverhounds, 9. Oklahoma City Energy FC, 10. Tulsa Roughnecks

    East:
    1. Tampa Bay Rowdies, 2. Fort Lauderdale Strikers, 3. Jacksonville Armada, 4. NY Cosmos, 5. Virginia Cavalry, 6. Charleston Battery, 7. Boston Rovers , 8. Rochester Rhinos, 9. Baltimore Comets, 10. Raleigh Railhawks


    UNITED SOCCER LEAGUES
    Atlantic:
    1. Charlotte Eagles, 2. Richmond Kickers, 3. Virginia Beach Mariners, 4. Wilmington Hammerheads, 5. Harrisburg City Islanders, 6. Connecticut Centennial FC, 7. NYRB II, 8. NYFC II, 9. DC United II, 10. Philadelphia Union II, 11. Atlanta Legion II, 12. Orlando City SC II, 13. Miami Vice FC II, 14. Montreal Impact II, 15. New England Revolution II, 16. Quebec City FC, 17. Greenville United, 18. Greensboro Dynamo, 19. Albany FC, 20. Atlanta Silverbacks

    East:
    1. Dayton Dutch Lions, 2. Toronto FC II, 3. Chicago Fire II, 4. Columbus Crew II, 5. St. Louis Athletic II, 6. North Star Minnesota II, 7. Chattanooga FC, 8. New Orleans Jesters, 9. Louisville Mustangs, 10. West Virginia FC, 11. Memphis Rogues, 12. Little Rock FC, 13. Jackson Brilla, 14. London FC, 15. Mississauga FC, 16. Windsor FC, 17. Grand Rapids FC, 18. Buffalo Barons, 19. Knoxville Kings, 20. Fort Wayne FC

    West:
    1. FC Dallas II, 2. Houston Dynamo II, 3. Sporting Kansas City II, 4. San Antonio Scorpions II, 5. Colorado Rapids II, 6. Real Salt Lake II, 7. Albuquerque FC, 8. Corpus Christi FC, 9. Laredo Heat, 10. McAllen FC, 11. Dallas-Fort Worth Tornado, 12. Winnipeg Wanderers, 13. Des Moines Menace, 14. FC Tucson, 15. Colorado Springs Switchbacks, 16. Wichita Wizards, 17. Ogden FC, 18. Galveston FC, 19. Odessa FC, 20. Topeka FC

    Pacific:
    1. Orange County Blues, 2. LA Galaxy II, 3. LA Empire II, 4. San Jose Earthquakes II, 5. Seattle Sounders II, 6. Portland Timbers II, 7. Vancouver Whitecaps II, 8. Calgary Rovers, 9. Victoria Royals, 10. Boise FC, 11. Santa Barbara FC, 12. Fresno Fuego, 13. Puget Sound Gunners, 14. Tacoma FC, 15. Eugene FC, 16. Bakersfield FC, 17. Modesto FC, 18. Spokane FC, 19. Reno Renegades, 20. Long Beach FC
     
  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While, I understand that post is out of boredom.... I will say that seriously this is how I would like to see the US system structured.

    Two professional leagues, MLS and NASL, and a competitive regional semi-pro/reserve league in the United Soccer Leagues.

    1. MLS:
    -28 teams.
    -two conferences, West and East. 14 teams in each.
    -26 intraconference games (home/away), 14 games outside of conference (alternate home/away each season). Total of 40 league games.
    -Top four teams in each conference advance to the play-offs. Home/Away for both quarter-final & semi-final. But highest ranked team hosts championship. Maximum of 5 games.

    2. NASL:
    -30 teams.
    -Three conferences, West, Central, East. 10 teams in each.
    -18 conference games (home/away), 20 outside of conference (alternate home/away each season). Total of 38 league games.
    -Top two teams from each conference automatically qualify for play-offs. Highest ranked two teams out of the three conferences advance. Home/Away for both quarter-final & semi-final. But highest ranked team hosts championship. Maximum of 5 games.

    3. USL-I Pro, Premier:
    -40 teams.
    -four conferences: Atlantic, West, East, Pacific. 10 teams in each.
    -36 conference games (2x home/away).
    -Top two teams from each conference advance to play-offs. Home/Away for both quarter-final & semi-final. But highest ranked team hosts championship. Maximum of 5 games.

    4. USL-II Semi-Pro, Regional:
    -48 teams.
    -eight conferences: North-Atlantic, South-Atlantic, North-East, South-East, North-West, South-West, North-Pacific, South-Pacific. 6 teams in each.
    -20 conference games (2x home/away)
    -Top team from each conference advance to play-offs. Host city for "championship bowl" where a maximum of 3 games will be played over a series of a single weekend.

    5. USL-III Amateur, States:
    *Each state sets up a competitive amateur league. For larger states, such as California and Texas. May be split appropriately.
    *Each states creates their own schedule as seen best fit.... especially, considering this is amateur level.
    *For example, my state of Georgia league could look like this:
    1. Atlanta-North Fulton County,
    2. Atlanta-South Fulton County,
    3. Atlanta-Cobb County,
    4. East Atlanta Metro (Gwinnett/DeKalb),
    5. North Atlanta Metro (Forsyth, Cherokee, Hall),
    6. South Atlanta Metro (Fayette, Coweta, Clayton, Henry),
    7. West Atlanta Metro (Bartow, Paulding, Douglas, Carroll),
    8. Athens-Northeast Georgia,
    9. Augusta-Eastern Georgia,
    10. Savannah-North Coastal Georgia
    11. Valdosta-Southeast Georgia
    12. Macon/Warner Robins- Middle Georgia
    13. Columbus -West Georgia
    14. Rome - North Georgia
    15. Albany-Southwest Georgia
    16. Brunswick- South Coastal Georgia
     

Share This Page