I thought MLS Rules were in place to prevent "the NASL scenario"

You demonstrate a complete and total ignorance into the psychology of sports fans in this region of the world. You completely ignore and refuse to comment on the FACT that the most popular soccer league in this country uses playoffs to determine their champion.

What you are suggesting would never, ever, ever work in this country. Ever.

I hate to break the news to you, but "EPL fans" and "La Liga" fans in this country aren't actually fans of those leagues. They don't follow those leagues because of their competition format.

Alleged EPL and La Liga fans in this country are actually Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona and Real Madrid fans. And none of them care dick all about Southampton vs. Wigan or Granada vs. Mallorca in a relegation battle. NONE.

The most popular soccer competition outside of Liga MX in this country is the Champions League, which is one giant f*cking playoff, with unbalanced schedules and upsets happening all the time.

That in and of itself ends the argument. You're grossly and horribly wrong.

 

The amount of things he's gotten wrong suggests I shouldn't follow his advice to talk to a "South American" about if an up to 3 team playoff is really a playoff...

 

And if they do care about Wigan or other lower echelon teams, odds are they aren't EPL fans either, because when that team gets relegated they'll stop following the EPL and follow the Championship, because that's where their team is.

(At least that's what happened to me this year now that Blackburn got relegated.)

 

For the sake of everyone's sanity, I'm going to go ahead and summarize ENB Sports entire argument using cookies as my example.

My name is ENB Sports and I really like Chocolate Chip cookies with macadamia nuts in them. In fact, I like them so much and think that they are so superior to regular chocolate chip cookies that I am going to start a blog about how all chocolate chip cookie manufacturers should be required to only make chocolate chip cookies with macadamia nuts in them.

I guess the local bakeries can still make regular chocolate chip cookies, because they don't matter.

I am also going to ignore mountains of market research and focus groups that show that the overwhelming majority of Americans prefer regular chocolate chip cookies. The way I see it, once those stupid people are forced to eat the kind of chocolate chip cookies I prefer, they will realize how smart I am.

 

Oh really?

You're going to make me do this again?
Bolivia - Playoffs since 2008
Chile - Playoffs since 2002
Colombia - Playoffs since 1999
Peru - Playoffs since 2009
Uruguay - Playoffs since 2005/06

So other than Peru, every South American playoff system (if we disregard the winners of the two seasons playing as you want), has had them for at least 5 years, one of which has had it for 14 years.

And again, the most popular league in this country has playoffs and has had them since the season following the 1970 World Cup.

The 2013 Super Bowl champion will be the 80th anniversary of the NFL champion being decided by a playoff. Yes, for the first 13 years it was regular season results only, but for anything resembling modern football its been a playoff. As you mention baseball has had a playoff since 1884. So they're not exactly a new thing, commercialism or not.

 

At full strength, the LA Galaxy was the best team in MLS this season. No doubt about it. They were punished in the regular season because they had more guys called up for international duty, the best defender in the league missed more than half the season with a knee injury and their starting keeper missed the beginning of the season because he was in drug rehab.

Sorry, but I don't believe in a system that punishes a team that has to deal with that much adversity when they were clearly the best team in the league when healthy.

The league is less than two decades old and is only 10 years removed from having to contract two teams. Give it time.

Prove that your model would bring in more revenue using something other than fantastical assumption.

So this is your way of saying that you were wrong when you tried to correct Jasonma?

Every sports league in every sport in every country on planet earth makes decisions based on commercialism.

Unless you can explain to me how having jersey sponsorship and LED advertising boards at soccer games isn't commercialization that allows for an unbalanced competition that favors the most corporate attractive teams in the league.

You know what's sad? Knowing each and every year, before the first ball is ever kicked, that 17 or 18 out of 20 teams are already eliminated from contention for a championship. We're #17! Yipee.

 

ENB Sports - This should be a really easy question for you to answer and really should end your need to participate in this thread should you be able to answer it.

If playoffs are so bad for MLS, and for soccer in general in the US, why is it that the most popular league in the US (Liga MX) uses playoffs and why is it that the most popular European club competition (Champions League) is one giant playoff?

 

I can sympathize with the notion that the best team is the one that performs the best over the course of a full season...but I also realize that playoffs are here to stay, and that the winner of MLS Cup is the recognized champion. ENB, just be thankful that the Supporter's Shield is actually recognized (and pray for the day when a balanced schedule is re-introduced) with a tangible benefit (potentially) in a Champions League birth.

 

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss.

Time to get over the Pollyanna, For The Good Of The Game nonsense.

We won't let the market decide. We'll let a very small subset of fans decide! There, sorted!

Don't know if they're "necessary." But the investor/operators want them, so there you are.
But you're right - it's very likely how it's going to be forever. Just a cross you and the rest of the proles will have to bear.

 

Here's the problem with your view.

You choose to ignore the fact that playoffs aren't just prevalent in North American sports, but they are actually desired by sports fans in this region of the world. You ignore the fact that the two most popular club soccer competitions in this country use playoffs to determine their champions. You ignore the fact that playoffs are so important to sports fans in this country that congress has actually debated the issue in an attempt to force a sporting league to adopt playoffs.

And despite all of this importance placed on playoffs in this country, you grasp onto the illogical and backwards belief that MLS would somehow gain more fans and generate more revenue by doing things the exact opposite way of what sports fans (including soccer fans) in this country clearly want.

Your argument makes no sense.

 

Because some believe that the way it's done in TROTW is the right way for everybody, even if ( a ) it's not done exactly the same way - or even at all - everywhere else in the world, ( b ) it makes no sense in the American system as currently constructed and ( c ) has been shown to cause issues that get glossed over by people who believe there's nothing like the final day of the season.

 

I don't know what everyone's arguing about anymore. MLS already has the best pro/rel system in the world. Every season, the top teams get promoted to the post-season. In the post-season, the teams that falter get relegated until we're left with a champion. The only gripe I have is that maybe too many teams get promoted at the end of the season, but that will balance out as more teams get promoted to MLS in the coming years.

 

Jasonma's numbers are good bit off. Bolivia and Brazil have ALWAYS had playoffs. Very traditional in both countries. Argentina and Uruguay have preferred round robins. Other countries like Peru will have a round robin followed by a final four or six team group to determine the champion. A lot of countries have moved format every few years or so.

 

And every shred of evidence shows that your opinion is horribly wrong and off base.

And I'd also like to know where you got your economics degree from, because for the life of me, I can't figure out how eliminating 11 games from the schedule generates more revenue for the league.

 

So in the Champions league, every team plays each other like they do in the 34 game MLS regular season. I didn't know that.

Explain to me how having 8 different groups (aka conferences) that only play against each other, followed by a bracket style knockout stage isn't a playoff? I can't wait for this one.

I assume that the two knockout tournaments you are referring to are the playoffs and the US Open Cup.

1) MLS doesn't run the US Open Cup, US Soccer does, and as such doesn't have marketing rights to that tournament to "hype it up" in the first place. So that suggestion is just bathed in ignorance.

2) You're entire argument is based on the premise of eliminating the other knockout tournament.

So now your argument is that US soccer fans are too stupid to understand the difference between the US Open Cup and the MLS Cup?

So by virtue of being healthier than their competition during the regular season, they deserved a trophy more than other teams that had to deal with national team call ups and extensive injuries to key players?

They got the Supporter's Shield trophy and an automatic berth into the CCL.

Don't you think, that with the billions upon billions of dollars being generated by sports in this country that somebody would have already implemented your idea if they thought it made any sense at all?

I mean we're talking about insanely successful people who own these teams and run these leagues. And not once has anyone said, "You know what guys, if we did things the exact opposite way of how every other successful league on this continent did things, we'd be way more popular and generate way more money because we'd be different than everyone else."

Why do you think that is?

 

You should demand a refund from the University of Toronto because you clearly don't understand basic math or common sense.

No matter how many games you make the regular season (34, 36, 38, 40, 162) if you eliminate the playoffs you are always eliminating games, which means you are always eliminating revenue.

There is no mathematical possibility to have a league that generates more revenue by eliminating games.

 

So leagues are changing to playoffs, presumably because they increase revenue and/or are more popular. Every major league in this country and the most popular soccer league in this country uses playoffs. So your idea to try to do something to increase MLS's popularity is do do the exact opposite of what's been wildly successful in this country and what's been successful for other soccer leagues in this hemisphere?

WTF?

 

it's a separate market that is integrated into the international player market. The international market heavily influences wages in each separate league market. There would not be a wild spending spree for American players like you see in MLB. In the MLB you have a limited amount of clubs attempting to sign a limited amount of players.

I don't follow MLS so I couldn't name any players but I've seen Beckerman play and there is nothing special there.

 

No, really? I couldn't tell. At least you're now being honest that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

You should demand a refund from the elementary school you attended. Apparently you can't read.