I think the overstatement/understatement (if it happens) is in response to the opposite being done by Zidane detractors. Furthermore, there are a lot of cliched assumptions made by Zidane detractors, in order to respond to which one needs to go into detail, something that then tends to be misconstrued. For instance, what you state above is true and nobody denies that France had a great team during Zidane's time (in fact, probably any team which wins a world cup is great in its own way), however when Zidane's detractors try to say that this team would have achieved what it did even without him, one has to interject and show how this team (for one reason or the other) failed to click without him. Someone who has just entered the discussion at this point would consider such a point as an overstatement of Zidane's importance to the French team (especially if that person looks at goal/assist stats as the primary aspect of consideration when looking at a player's importance), however, looking at the entire context of the discussion this point isn't in fact an overstatement but a necessary response to a cliched assumption. Similarly, if you care to look at my whole discussion with Puck (and not just the last set of posts), you would realize that my point on which you started on me i.e. PK conversions under high pressure big game situations being important criteria for me to judge a player, is an irrelevant aspect albeit a necessary response to the way that the discussion shaped up. The original point was - whether such goals should be counted among the "big game goals" of players, and I for one had already made it clear that you can remove such PK goals and Zidane would still be high up on the list of big game scorers as per the criteria of the link under discussion. In fact, Zidane would be disproportionately high considering his career gpg and his playing position in a list dominated at its top end by forwards/strikers with a high scoring pedigree. As I stated above, you remove those PK goals along with the PK goal against Portugal in 2000 and Zidane still has a great record in scoring big game goals as per the criteria of that link. And as you said, he did convert those chances which were PKs against two goalkeepers in top form i.e. a Ricardo who had saved 3 PKs in the shootout against England in the QFs and a Buffon having the tournament of his life, something which IMO should also be taken into account when considering the difficulty of those conversions. Maybe disingenuous was the wrong word considering that you truly seem to believe what you have stated above. Hence, I don't know if you would be swayed by this data, however, let me share it with you anyway to show you one source which agrees with me when I say that Zidane was not average in the WC group stage games that he featured in. Consider the following kicker ratings (lower the better) for Zidane: WC98 vs South Africa - 2.5 (highest rated player in the game and hence man of the match as per kicker) WC98 vs Saudi Arabia - 2.5 (was shown red card just after the hour mark) WC02 vs Denmark - 3.5 (rushed back from injury) WC06 vs Switzerland - 2.5 (highest rated player in the game and hence man of the match as per kicker) WC06 vs South Korea - 3.0 That is an average of 2.8 per game across 5 WC group stage games across 3 WCs that he featured in, as compared to an average of 3.2 for the other player with a comparable number of WC group stage games and playing position, from among those players that you mentioned earlier i.e. Ronaldinho who also has 5 such games. In case you are wondering about the other two players that you mentioned - Riquelme, to his credit, has a rating of 2.0 per game across his 3 WC group stage games in WC06, but his overall average goes down to 2.6 once you factor in the knockout stage games; while Messi has the best average among these players of 2.1 across 5 appearances (1 as sub at minute 70) in the WC group stage games that he has featured in although the main criticism that was directed at Messi, was IMO regarding his inability to show his Barcelona form of being able to single-handedly win matches for his team by scoring game changing goals (do correct me if I am wrong with any of the above ratings or their averages as they were gathered in a bit of a hurry). To conclude, the statement that you made above of Zidane tending to be average in low-profile games IMO is an example of an understatement of his performances being done without proper evidence. Going into those low profile games to show his good performance on the other hand is often pulled up as an overstatement, or simply dismissed on the exact basis that such games are against low quality opposition (for instance if I were to show his great passing/throughballs/longballs from friendlies/league/league cup games they would be dismissed as not being the quality of a Zico/Valderrama/Maradona pass in a WC precisely because they were against low quality opposition). In essence, it is a win-win for the detractors either way.
Thanks for the link. I think you are right about his Juve legacy and I often feel that the method of his departure is an important aspect which overshadows that legacy. Also, the part about Nedved is definitely true and he did help Juventus recover immediately from Zidane's sale. However, if one looks at their times with Juventus closely enough, one would see that Nedved played with a marginally better cast (especially in defence) and fared worse in Europe albeit slightly better domestically, considering that Zidane's Juventus lost the Serie A by very small margins in his last two seasons with Juventus while Nedved's Juventus had two of its titles stripped. So it is not as black and white as one might think.