Explaining the closing of the UFL franchise in Orlando, Commissioner MICHAEL HUYGHUE said: "Orlando was a great market, but the big driver was the size of the venues available to us. We need appropriately sized stadium venues as much as we need non-NFL markets in order to be successful. Virginia offers us the ideal scenario, while such an option does not exist in Orlando. There you go....non-NFL markets...you are wrong.
As much as you try to say it isn't, Orlando is a non-NFL market. And that commissioner (I don't know if you noticed this) resigned after completely failing to achieve objectives. He also says "Orlando was a great market," but just ignore that, because it doesn't help your supposed point. Given how many UFL teams have struggled (even in non-NFL markets), no, sorry, amigo. You're wrong. You're always wrong. Competition from the Bucs didn't kill the Tuskers - playing on Thursday nights, having no real owner, no marketing and second-rate product in a football-mad state, that's what killed the Tuskers.
Alright, go get a room you two! ........Anyways, back to the subject at hand: As it's been reported in recent weeks, VSI has plans to build a SSS in or near Downtown Tampa, which would seriously undercut any plans the Rowdies might have had in getting one built for themselves in that part of town. Would it be advisable for the Rowdies to still build a future venue in Hillsborough County if VSI build one there?
1. The plans are just that plans, they could fold after a year. nobody knows. 2. How much money do they have if they can afford land in Tampa? 3.What kind of stadium are they planning on building 3k? 5k? 4. My idea would be for Rowdies to play Spring season in St. Pete and Fall season in Tampa.
In the end, it all comes down to the fan experience, advertising, and promotions. Look at all of the baseball teams that compete in the area in the Florida State League. The ones that do better in attendance (Threshers) advertise and have great promo nights all season ($1 night, Feeding Frenzy, etc.) and draw fans from across the Bay area. The ones that do not have a much smaller attendance but still do OK (Dunedin) and only get local fans. If the Rowdies make some adjustments they can draw a larger crowd and not be affected by the Flames. I really do not think that the Flames are going to take many fans from the Rowdies that are already fans of the Rowdies. They will draw a new fan base if the make the right moves, but the current Rowdies fans are going to remain. But with the limited advertising that is out there now I would doubt that they are getting too many casual fans as it is. If you have good promotions casual fans couldn't care less what league or level you are at. On $1 night the Threshers are packed with fans that do not care that it is single A baseball. Some of those casual fans become real fans over time. That said, if the Flames build a SSS and promote themselves more then the Rowdies will find it more difficult to build a larger fan base and reason to build a SSS. They will continue as is with a decent base but find growth difficult, especially on the Hills. side of the bay. This is just my opinion, but I think the two teams can co-exist for some time if they both advertise and have good promotions....but as of now the Rowdies have lacked in this department. If they could lay out a new plan for growth and a SSS then that would go a long way to current fans, even if that SSS was a reconfigured AL. Right now there seems to be no plan.
Different situation since one is a major league team and the other a minor league team. The Cosmos play in a minor league and won't have have Henry, Marquez, Solli, Le Toux, and Cahill running around a college football field out in Long Island. Ask that question again when the Cosmos, or whatever name the eventual NYC team uses, is in MLS. The Flames and Rowdies are both minor league teams who will probably have comparable talent. So it is up to the fans to decide which minor league product is better for them. Although there is no reason you cannot support both since they play in difference leagues, the question is which one gets your money?
IMHO, the Rowdies should be very concerned. The Rowdies management has shown they are not terribly competent running the team from a marketing standpoint. The Flames management will have to be pretty bad to do worse than the Rowdies management. Now, this isn't just a bash the Rowdies post - they have done a few things right (like finally acquiring the use of the Rowdies name), but those seem to be heavily out weighed by their bad decisions (like the stadium in year one, and the stadium location in year two and going forward into the near future). IIRC, this team was using PMI as a consultant and I've often wondered - why did almost everything PMI did this last year work for San Antonio? Why didn't the Rowdies see the same results from PMI? I don't know what the PMI contract with the Rowdies was for - maybe just ticket sales only. If I own the Rowdies, I am looking at my investment rather critically and trying to figure out how to drive up revenues because it seems they now how to control their expenses. There are a few basic ways to do this... Increase sponsorship revenues Increase ticket sales and game attendance Increase merchandise sales It seems to me they have underperformed as an organization on all three items. Maybe they should re-engage PMI's team to help them with the revenue side of their business. I would imagine the team would benefit from increasing attendance and that the other two would increase with attendance. If PMI could raise attendance to anywhere near the 7,227 Al Laing holds we all would be saying very different things in this thread. In fact, I doubt USL Pro would even attempt to put a team in Tampa if the Rowdies were doing things right. In the end, I am rooting for the Rowdies team, and the NASL to succeed. I am also rooting for the USL Pro to succeed. I'd like to see soccer grow in the US where the lower divisions are strong and stable. I think the saying goes a little bit like this..."A rising tide lifts all boats...unless your boat has a hole in it. Then you drown that much faster." I might have that last part wrong...
To be far, TB management does have three years (actually four, launched in 2008) of experience, while VSI has, to this point, no years of experience that we know of running a professional team. You have that on one side, and the fact that one will likely have more resources and a higher level of play than the other. On the other side, obviously, are the things you mention above AND the Hillsborough issue. I don't know if it's time to say "Very concerned" just yet, but I think it would be prudent to not take anything for granted. For either side.
While technically they are D2 & D3 respectively, I wouldn't say the NASL is a higher level. I have seen several USL games this year and three NASL games & I wouldn't say there is a difference in level. In fact I would say that OC has more talent and is a better team than the Rowdies. Granted OC was clearly the best team in USL despite being upset in the playoffs. Also, as we all know it depends on the financial commitment of ownership to put together a talented team. While they have 3/4 years of experience on the surface it appears they haven't learned much during that time. If they have then it would appear they don't have the financial commitment to do the proper marketing, let alone to build a SSS. Also, I believe they are one of the teams that was getting funding from traffic. If so then next year they will need to cover the previous funding from traffic. As for resources you will just have to wait but from what I know of VSI they have the resources and funding far beyond that of the Rowdies and have developed / struck some deals with the right movers and shakers in Tampa. Over the next couple 2-6 months details will becoming out.
Yes, there's a difference in level. (And "three NASL games?" Really? That's your sample?) Is it huge? Probably not huge, but Orlando skews the average a little, paying what amounts to D2 wages in a D3 league. Could Wilmington or Charleston compete in the NASL? Probably. Could LA or Antigua? Probably not. Would Atlanta or Edmonton tear up USL Pro? Probably not. And my point was...VSI has never done this, to my knowledge. And then we'll see, indeed.
There are only 8 teams in the league so seeing half of the teams play would be a fair enough sampling to judge the level. As you pointed out the bottom 2-3 teams in each are not very good. Also, Rochester could compete in the NASL.l My point on the Rowdies is that VSI doesn't need much experience based on the Rowdies performance saw far. But from what i know they do have experience. The CEO of VSI North America played at Fulham has experience with running a club in England, has also been in the business world for a couple decades and has put on several major sporting events, such as the cricket world championships, by put on he oversaw everything from sites to sponsorship. As I stated previously I believe the Rowdies ownership (like many other ownerships groups current & past) want to do more and they have good intentions but after getting into this they have realized it takes more financial resources than they are willing to put into it based on the potential for any possible return on their investment. Notice I did not say financial resources available. I think they have the financial resources or can get them but are choosing not to.
Since you are new to this forum, Soccer Joe (if that is in fact your real name), I won't be really mean to you for now. I tend to be a very nasty person in the virtual world. You seem to know a lot about the VSI folks. So over the next 60-180 days we will hear a lot from this new group you say...I hope so. I hope they are fantastic at running a team and show the Rowdies management how to do it. Maybe then the Rowdies management will step up and do the Rowdies brand proud and properly support the team financially and from a marketing perspective. Of course, I love spending other people's money and that's why I'm applying for a job with the federal government - in the GSA. One question - Soccer Joe, are you related to the team in any way officially or unofficially? It strikes me as interesting that you're a new member who knows a lot about VSI and is posting in the Rowdies forum. Like...like...you're watching it.
PMI is essentially the front office for the Scorpions, which has obviously yielded great results. Their work for the other NASL clubs (including Tampa Bay) has been as a consultant. Not sure what that entails, but has not yielded the same effect. You get what you pay for usually. I have never heard the Rowdies management mention PMI so I would think their relationship is minimal at best. It would be great if the Rowdies turned the keys over to PMI like San Antonio did and see what they could do, but I am afraid that isn't going to happen. The owners aren't going to drop the dough needed to do that. You are mistaken. Traffic is supporting (to varying degrees) Ft Lauderdale, Carolina, Atlanta, and of course Minnesota. Not Tampa Bay.
I agree somewhat, but it's better for Rowdies not make promises with stadium just take it gradually, their have been ownership groups who gave open-ended promises and nothing happened.
First, my parents were not that creative nor did they have the foresight to name me soccer joe! Second, I have been in soccer for a long time so I have think skin. Third, I've been reading on Big Soccer for several years and have found it interesting relative to other forums as there seems to be some sharing of information and debating, rather than bickering, etc... Not always but more times than not. Fourth, if I was attached officially or unofficially to VSI do you really think I would say so on any forum! Last, most of what I have shared on here can be found by doing some research. Like knowing that VSI has an academy in Portugal and will also have one in Tampa.