The way I interpreted the scene is that they didnt need him to steal it, they just wanted to test him to see where his loyalties were. I picked up that the whole thing was just a test. It's about trust. If someone violates your trust, it immediately makes you think, "what else have they been lying about?". I dont think it makes her jump from her husband is a Muslim to a terrorist but rather it may make her more suspicious in the future which could lead down that road should she find anything else out.
Fair enough, but if it was a test, they were risking a huge asset in doing so. It wasn't just about trust. If she had found out that Brody had lied to her about something else (let's say he had another affair), then her first response to his admission would not be to think back to the time a "crazy" lady suspected him of being a terrorist. Purely plot-wise, her response sort of justified his secrecy. Brody actually gave an excellent reason for his conversion to Islam in season one, in his conversation with Carrie. He was in a hostile environment and held onto the one thing that gave him a bit of hope and comfort. It made sense for Carrie to see this as something sinister, since she was already very suspicious of Brody. I don't understand why Jessica should respond in the manner that she did. Considering the mental trauma he has supposedly gone through, the persona Brody presents to his family is in a far better state than he has any business being. Her reaction to his new religious beliefs was stronger than when he shot the deer in the middle of the party last season. Talk about perspective!
Brody slept with Carrie and Jessica knows it (as she called him on it and he did not contest it). So while there may be some terrorist confusion and concern -- I think for Jessica's character this is mostly about her husband not telling her something so deeply personal to him. She said very clearly "You lied to me every time you came in here." She was hurt enough that Dana knew and she didn't (completely valid explanation notwithstanding--this is purely emotional territory). But "that CIA woman?" That would be a huge, double insult. "You told her and didn't tell me?" And Brody didn't actually deny it -- he just basically said "She's crazy." I think when a bomb like that is dropped--in addition to his shockingly intense reaction to the quran hitting the floor--it's fair to have her say, "Well, what else is a big fat lie?" Black is white, up is down -- why not reconsider these previously outlandish claims against your husband? At least for a moment. So all told, I don't think her reaction was out of bounds at all -- or even as potentially offensive or insensitive as the earlier conversation in this thread about "Islamic Prayer=Terrorist Clue." This is a huge secret to keep from your wife -- especially as they are just now making progress as a couple after a deeply painful re-introduction. She gave up what seemed to be a wonderful relationship with a man she loved and who loved her and her kids for a giant sack of woe. It's been really hard to make it work -- and now this. And I also don't begrudge that character's prejudice, even against the entirety of Islam. In her mind, evil practitioners of that faith tortured her husband for eight years (as far as she knows). Sure, a thinking person can make those distinctions between an entire culture and bad actors -- but again, for that character, I think it's understandable to have that unforgivable anger inside. Had he given the same speech to Jessica that he did to Carrie about his conversion -- that would be a different story. But instead she's already pissed off at Dana; Dana proves to be actually right, making her even more angry surely, feeling stupid and left out; and her husband is a big liar; and the woman her husband screwed also knew this big secret. That's a lot.
That's why I said "another" affair. It's a big leap to go from "my husband is a liar" to "my husband is a terrorist" though. My general point was this: in my opinion, the reason why Jessica started to second-guess her earlier opinion about the claims Carrie made about her husband was not because she caught him in a lie but because she caught him in "that" lie.
Never mind a heartbeat away from it, at some point he might even get to BE the President. Why would you risk that??? Still, as others have said, as a test it seems almost plausible, apart from... Yeah, that's where it started to run out of steam a bit. If you can already get the stuff by whomever is inside, (the swarthy furrin-looking fella I'm guessing), then why risk someone that could be HUGE to you in the future just for a 'test'. That's plain crazy. I think that goes back to the point from my first post regarding the subject... if they didn't do stuff like that, they wouldn't 'evil', 'underhand' and, y'know, just plain 'furrin' enough. Well actually I didn't think that was that far-fetched. If you'd heard that your other half had kept something THAT close to them hidden you WOULD think, what else have they held back... your mind would be all over the place for a second.
I agree that is far fetched. Brody being offered the vice presidency that soon as a congressman is unrealistic. I could see that happening after his having served a term or three. But being only a freshman congressman is implausible. Carrie being brought back into the field is more plausible. But her mental state is so fragile that anyone would think twice about enlisting her help. The CIA operative training her would in real life report she was completely unreliable.
In the real world, given what we know of Brody's wife, Jessica, I would think that the revelation that Brody was hiding his conversion and the deep seated feelings she must have for terrorists due to the pain caused to her and family would prevent Jessica from being able to accept his conversion given what Islam represents to her. To embrace a faith perverted by the terrorists would in my view turn her stomach. Furthermore, Jessica's remarks that they would stone her daughter to death in a soccer stadium for having premarital sex means she has a very clear view of how the faith is perverted for such purposes. What is shocking to me is that she would not run out under those circumstances. Lied to, his behavior towards her throwing the Qur'an on the floor, his involvement with Carrie, coupled with Carrie's warning about his being a terrorist would cause her to grab her stuff and head back to the captain. Vice Presidency or not, there are somethings that are so ********ed up that no rational person would put up with, particularly when in such an emotional state. Deception, deceit are things that cannot be explained or rationalized away. They are huge deal breakers in any marriage.
I take it you arent married or never have been? Because from my experience, it is not a big leap for a women to react completely crazy like that. My ex-wife reacted far worse to far less many times.
I am married! The thing I found odd was not the fact that she got mad but for the first thing for her to think of being the claims of the "crazy" CIA lady.
Hasnt your wife ever just gone to extremes when you have done something wrong or lied to her? Like you messed up and she hit below the belt? I dealt with that shit all the time so her reaction and what she said didnt seem too off-balance for me. I have seen my friends wives do the same thing.
I'm guessing BG and I are both married to solid, dependable European women, the very picture of rationality mate I wish... Anyway, I suppose the point is that people are different and react differently to the same stimulus. I didn't think her reaction was particularly unusual under the circumstances. The guy hasn't just been down the pub or visiting his mother in Spokane... he's been held by terrorists for 8 years. Who KNOWS what they've done to him and how it's affected him. He's been acting strange on quite a few occasions so that might have been the reason for it and now she's thinking has gone... well, in the right direction, strictly speaking. Personally I can't help thinking that, in real terms, once he got back with his family, his attitude towards Nazir will have altered because it doesn't matter HOW strong your beliefs are, your family is still your family. In that regard... there's one bit that always brings a lump to my throat in this and that's when the daughter rings up her dad when he's about to blow himself and the VP up at the end of the last series. Probably the 'dad' in me I suppose, but that bit's hard to take, even for a cynical old bugger like me.
Who? I think you're arguing with your own point there mate. The fact that she's highly emotional might be exactly what STOPS her acting rationally. Not sure we can generalise about it. I think she recognises the fellas been through an enormous amount and his mind has been 'broken', to all intents and purposes. I think she'd give him an enormous leeway under those circumstances, particularly when part of the 'deception', (the affair with Carrie), appeared to happen after he became aware her affair with the other fella when he wasn't there. The 'being Muslim' stuff has only just happened so we'll have to see how she reacts to it but that, on it's own, shouldn't be a reason to throw everything up in the air, especially since there are two children involved. Although, as you say, the deception is the thing, I'd be surprised if that will be enough for her to split with him.
Speaking about one aspect of that scene, I wonder if the producers were at all worried about the moment where Jessica throws the Quran. Especially with the recent reactions to some other material sensitive to Islam.
Hmm... possibly. I'd be surprised if it were THAT much of a consideration. It just seemed a natural thing to happen and his reaction to be the same.
I enjoyed the episode, except couldn't buy Brody alerting Abu Nazir so fast. That seemed very far fetched for me.
If they didn't, it hardly was made apparent. Anyway, that wasn't really related to the plot itself, just something I wondered in light of the volatile atmosphere in terms of other such cultural expressions.
Video bombshell! Couldn't be happier that someone else finally knows about Brody. Couldn't be more skeptical (yet hopeful) about how they manage this turn of events. Surely -- surely! -- Saul has to tell Estes, or somebody else, yes? At least Saul knows Carrie's not crazy; but not sure when he'll be able to tell her. And how will she react, knowing what she was put through, and put herself through, what she lost -- all based on her correct hunches. Yet, making a video is not a crime.... And, does he actually say what he was going to do ....? (I don't think he did -- it was a bit vague, if I recall) But, c'mon ... he can't be Veep now, can he? Questions . . . .
Yeah, that was pretty unbelievable. Apart from anything how would he know where the danger was coming from. Maybe he was in danger if he got BACK in the car.
Agreed on the how this video plays out relative to Brody. There are a number of potential outcomes. One is that Brody says absolutely nothing in the video that could be construed to be damning. Secondly, there have been over the years many cases of soldiers confessing to war crimes and the like. Short of Brody stating on the video that he carried out a terrorist act I fail to see what the possible implications are other than to derail his chances of being named as the VP.
I can't remember, tbh, but I thought that's what he DID say in it. Wasn't it a suicide video? It's been a while now... maybe someone who's watched it again recently, (or for the first time), can advise.
I know he mentions the 82 children who were killed in the drone strike; and that the US has not acknowledged or atoned for this in any way. He may mention the Vice President specifically, but I'm much less sure about that. But he definitely frames his actions as a direct response to that injustice -- but I'm pretty sure he never actually defines his own actions, i.e. detonating a bomb, or killing US officials.
There is also the potential risk that the text would be intercepted by the NSA or any surveillance devices at the CIA.
The fact that he would denounce the administration and the VP would be difficult to overcome in my view.