Homeland Season 2 - Showtime

Discussion in 'Movies, TV and Music' started by Alberto, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Well, there's about 1.6Bn of them so that equates to about 1.6 :D so, fair enough... knock off a zero if you want. In terms of these master-mind fellas I'd say 20's about right.

    Most of them seem pretty dumb, tbh, and their 'plots' laughably simple. That was my initial point. That we consistently overestimate the capability of our enemies and the truth is we've ALWAYS done it.
     
  2. PeanutFlush

    PeanutFlush Member

    Jul 8, 2009
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    DC United
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    Maybe I missed something because I devoured the whole first season over Labor Day weekend, but was the sheikh financing Abu Nazir? I thought the reason his right hand man killed the girl so he could pawn her necklace to pay for the professor's house. Carrie thought the sheikh was a financier but i thought that was a red herring.
     
  3. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hmm.. good point.

    But I thought the sheik was seen chatting to Abu Nazir by the 'head' prostitute, (npi), and that's why Carrie thought he was financing him? Not sure.... haven't seen it for a while, tbh
     
  4. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
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    New York Red Bulls
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    The sins of the West have been portrayed on the show. The whole motivation for Brody to turn is death of the son of the terrorist that he befriends. The boy is killed in a drone strike that takes out a good chunk of the compound.

    On the flip side of this issue and one not discussed in the program is that many times command and control centers for terrorists are located in Mosques and residential buildings. It isn't clear cut like here in the west, where bases of military operations are segregated from civilian areas. They are purposely kept in civilian areas so that even when surgical strikes are carried out it appears the attack was misguided and wrongly killed civilians only. There is always some collateral damage in these strikes, but that is a distinction the terrorist doesn't care about. They have no guilt or concerns killing the innocents. It's part of their modus operandi.

    As to numbers there is no way of truly knowing what percentage of Muslims are terrorists though clearly the numbers are very small, but there is make no mistake a fairly large faction of people that support the use of violence to right perceived and actual sins against Islam. We didn't see small demonstrations in the middle east carried out by the few over the past two days. Thousands of people were laying siege to embassy's across several countries. That isn't a small number. It cause for great concern. How can Muslims in these nations stop knee jerk reacting and acting on the advise of manipulators and terrorists that incite hate and violence.
     
  5. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    I think the terrorists had a inkling the girl had turned and she was killed because of what she knew. Remember there was concern expressed that there may be a mole supplying information to the terrorists. Also, while the necklace was used to launder money, they could have easily taken it from her without having to kill her.
     
  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The point about the drone strike, IIRC, wasn't just that it caused Brody to befriend Nazir but that the US administration lied about it so, yeah, fair point that the sins of the west, as you put it, have been detailed, at least to a certain extent.

    Not sure of the stuff about drone strikes and other attacks in general though. We know from the wikileaks film, among other things, that sometimes these people are bit too ready to shoot first and THEN find out what's going on.
    I was referring to these criminal master-mind types, like Nazir, rather than the cannon fodder.
    Yeah, my take is that she was punished. Apart from anything they could have simply given the necklace to the guy that drove her and 'cut out the middle man', (or woman).
     
  7. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    Yes that is why he wanted to execute the vice president. As payback for the drone strike and because he had given his word to Nazir to bring the persons responsible to justice. The main issue I have with Brody's actions were that he took the law into his own hands and he also would kill others that had nothing to do with the murder of Aisa.
     
  8. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
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    I never said the music was there because he was hiding his new religion from his family. I said it was there because it was the first sign that Brody might be what Carrie had suspected him of being. If you watch TV and notice the use of music, I think that is pretty apparent. If you are this particular about the use of music during a show and what it could imply, I am not sure how you could enjoy any of it. The use of that type of music during shows is actually something I find annoying. I much prefer the use of actual songs rather than some keyboardist trying create a certain mood for scenes. Your comments are exactly why - they try to force a certain implication or mood for scenes within the show rather than allow the viewer to form their own emotions or opinions.
     
  9. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
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    I never said the music was there because he was hiding his new religion from his family. I said it was there because it was the first sign that Brody might be what Carrie had suspected him of being. If you watch TV and notice the use of music, I think that is pretty apparent. If you are this particular about the use of music during a show and what it could imply, I am not sure how you could enjoy any of it. The use of that type of music during shows is actually something I find annoying. I much prefer the use of actual songs rather than some keyboardist trying create a certain mood for scenes. Your comments are exactly why - they try to force a certain implication or mood for scenes within the show rather than allow the viewer to form their own emotions or opinions.
     
  10. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
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    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
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    You're going to elaborate on this, because I have no idea what you mean by it.
     
  11. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I've been avoiding this thread because I wanted to watch the show -- and I just last night finished Season 1 (wow!).

    So apologies for not responding to the earlier note, but things seem well sorted. I've always tried to be as hands-off as possible as a Mod for this forum, but have made a habit of moving political discussions to the P&CE forum -- BUT, that is going to be crazy hard if not nigh impossible for this show, methinks.

    Reading through, though, again -- it seems like it's been well sorted. Most folks here are rational adults and I think we can navigate that balance.

    PS: In the Brave New BigSoccer, we can use this @ functionality and folks will be notified, i.e. "If Alberto had typed in Crimen y Castigo I would have been notified.

    EDIT:
    Now I'm not sure if that @ thing actually works -- but it's worth a crack.
     
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  12. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (Very annoyed because I just lost a long post due to my own clumsy fingers....)

    So: Lighting Round comments!

    –Islam=Terrorism
    Yes, I too was uncomfortable with the association of prayer=villainy. But I was comfortable with that discomfort because it was great storytelling. Watching Brody spread that mat and begin his devotions was truly a Holy Crap moment. It does play into terrible stereotypes–and Yes, they added music to make it even more ominous–but that’s because it’s a TV drama. It was a brilliant–and at that point brilliantly ambiguous–reveal.

    –Bumblers vs. Super Spys
    I’m halfway where Naughtius is. I don’t think all jihad terrorists are bumbling shoe bombers. But I also don’t think they could flawlessly pull off safe houses, trip wire bombs, kidnapping prominent citizens and machine gun drive bys in the US without a trace.

    –Claire Danes had a whoooooooole lotta actin’ to get done.
    Jittery superagent. Sexy drunk. Bossy genius. Flirty nutso. Lovelorn paranoid. Obsessive explodee. Wisenheimer ninja. Guilty relative. Insubordinate subordinate. That Emmy must have been engraved months ago.

    –Carrie Loves Brody
    If you had written down that plotline and showed it to me, I would have never, ever, ever watched this show. But that was amazing, and Danes and Lewis get so much credit for pulling that off. I completely buy Carrie falling for Brody while keeping her suspicions intact and alive; and I think Brody could have fallen in love with Carrie–but didn’t allow it. And those two scenes where she’s expecting a rendezvous were crushing–the first where Brody comes over to make sure his secrets are safe and to say goodbye for good; and the second where he narcs her out, ruins her career and sends her into an even deeper mental spiral. Now that's a bad break-up.

    –One Major Flaw
    ...that doesn't really diminish the show for me at all. But:
    The whole show hinges on the information Carrie gets in the very opening scene of the pilot. That an American POW has been turned. I know they explained that David Estes had political ambitions and that Carrie didn't think any POWs were still alive -- but I just don't buy that Carrie would not tell anyone this -- then never tell Estes. She is so thorough and professional that it's hard to believe she kept it to herself. And then, I think her drive to stop another attack--which is her utterly dominant motivation--would have led her to even sacrifice her career (which she seems comfortable risking frequently) and share that info with Estes.

    –And finally: Morena Baccarin
    Holy Maccaroni. Even her name is gorgeous.
     
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  13. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also-- Re: Lynn / Saudi Sheik / Nazir

    I think it was the No.2 man, not the Saudi Sheikh, who was associated with Nazir. I think they mentioned that the Sheikh was genuinely torn up over the murder of the girl.

    My understanding is that she wasn't discovered at all -- that she was simply murdered for the crazy-expensive necklace which funded the airport house.
     
  14. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
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    Aug 19, 2002
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    Never claimed it wasn't great TV. Just great TV that made me feel more than a bit icky for watching it.

    I will admit that there were far less such uncomfortable cringe-moments in the second half of the season.
     
  15. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

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    Aug 19, 2002
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    My problem with the Sheik and his entourage is that they are presented as a bunch of misogynistic assholes. It's apparent in the way they are talked about by Carrie & co before they are revealed on-screen, apparent in the scene where they are taking the interviews for the new harem girls, apparent in the way his n°2 regards Lynne. In itself, that choice would not have bothered me, but when it was compounded with several other plot choices that all painted the same picture, it did.
     
  16. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
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    TV shows sometimes overuse music trying to create certain moods. However, this sometimes damages your ability to perceive things more openly or the way your imagination would normally allow. Basically, TV shows try to force certain moods.

    In regards to the prayer scene, I do not believe they were trying to implicate being Muslim automatically means you're a terrorist but rather it could mean that Brody is specifically a terrorist or at least something more than a returning POW. I do not think it was the shows intention to paint such a broad picture but rather just that particular person and situation.
     
  17. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    Agreed. It was also done for misdirection and shock value. Brody is in previous seasons shown purchases electronic supplies. The next morning he pulls the carpet out unrolls it and begins morning prayers facing Mecca.
     
  18. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welcome to the read and I am very happy you enjoyed season one. I can't wait for 10:00pm EDT to arrive tomorrow.

    This series proves that you can create intelligent television shows, garner awards and ratings too.
     
  19. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    Very interesting and positive is that the season two has not yet premiered and we have almost two full pages.
     
  20. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, personally I didn't think the 'sinister' music at that point was out of place. I just thought it was an indication, (for those who need such things:(), that he wasn't who he made himself out to be.

    A bit heavy-handed maybe but nothing too untoward.
     
  21. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think, if you tried to make the 'rule' too strict, it would become a farce. The show is about politics... it's a political thriller. If we're not allowed to even mention it it will be ridiculous.

    As you say, as long as it's kept within bounds that shouldn't be a problem.
    Ooh, very swish :)
    Technology, eh?! :(
     
  22. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
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    Aug 19, 2002
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    Isn't it all getting a bit far-fetched?
    Brody getting offered the veep-slot, Carrie having to be brought back into the fold just because one of her sleeper assets happened to come alive, the ludicrous notion of using Brody to steal information from the CIA...
     
  23. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
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    United States
    Aren't all TV shows far-fetched? If they werent far-fetched, they wouldnt be entertaining because they would just mirror our day-to-day lives. The entire point of them is to be far-fetched.
     
  24. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sadly, those were my feelings exactly.
    Even the bomb dropped on Jessica about Brody's conversion seemed somehow far-fetched -- even though I thought Lewis and especially Baccarin were fantastic in that scene. I thought her shock and confusion and wounded outrage was perfect -- yet it all seemed.... I dunno. The whole "it's not supposed to touch the floor" thing, again was played brilliantly on both ends, but I'm going to fault the writers here, because it may be just too much.

    Yes, the whole Nazir-proxy demand / Estes office heist was also a stretch for me on all counts (the asking, the agreeing and the doing).

    I'm still hopeful. I guess I'm still on the high from just watching all of Season 1 in rapid succession. But even before last night I was wondering how they could sustain this in any plausible way.
     
  25. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

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    It just seems a gross mis-use of a valuable asset. Here's a guy who might one day be a heartbeat away from the presidency and you are going to risk him by having him steal information from the CIA? Not to mention the fact that they obviously have someone high enough up in the agency to get Estes code, so why not let him steal the document? And then there is just the notion of Estes having sensitive information locked in a vault in his personal office. The entire thing was just as contrived as can be.

    The Jessica Brody scene irked me for another reason: the simple discovery of his religious beliefs made her more willing to believe the things Carrie told about him. Excuse me, but to me there is still a massive leap to go from "my husband is a Muslim" to "my husband is a terrorist".
     

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