They kept the same format 2003-2010. There were minor tweaks here and there to the qualification and seeding rules, but the 2-1-1 tournament format was stable for approximately half of the league's existence. 2011 kept that same format with the only change being the addition of two more teams and the play-in round. This year has three changes--the return to strictly conference-based qualification and seeding, the 2-leg conference finals, and the home site for MLS Cup. Any one of those by itself I would consider a minor change, but taken together it counts as a major format change for the first time since 2003.
This is what I would like to see happen. It requires only a minor tweak to the current system, but helps restore home-field advantage for the higher seed by making the scoring margins irrelevant and increasing the likelihood that a mini-game at their stadium will be necessary to decide the series.
Seems like a really risky strategy considering that almost half of the teams DIDN'T make the playoffs.
I said it was ONE of the reasons. In the NY Area, they are basically a laughing stock. And if you dont get the impression that many people think MLS competitive format is a joke, then I don't think your looking very hard. Former players, coaches, guys like Grant Wahl etc. You really never hear people this time of the year killing MLS format? It's done EVERY YEAR. The soccer is ignored and MLS pathetic choice of format is discussed instead. Even many casual observers seem to know this about the league. At least the ones that play in the leagues that I play in. Based on the formats MLS has rolled out since I have been watching, I don't see them getting it right. The number of teams, TV contracts or age of the league has just about NOTHING to do with creating a format that rewards regular season success. Those are just excuses. We BOTH know that. The truth is, for whatever reason, MLS doesnt really care about significantly rewarding clubs that produced in the regular season, in their post season. Why would they all of a sudden start caring about this when the league 'matures' as you suggest?
50% make it... Pretty low level teams make it in. You can't absolutely dog it like teams used to do when there was 80% making the playoffs. At the same time, you really dont need to show up each week either. Just make it in. After that, things start to equal out pretty quick. I think Dom has been preaching the lack of meaningfulness in the MLS regular season going all the back to his San Jose days. And he has a pretty good track record of success.
Right, so why wouldn't we expect 'minor' changes going forward? All I said is that MLS will make some changes like the seem to each season. Which basically, they do.
Come on. Complaining about the format and equating that with a joke and not watching are two different animals. BCS football system is a joke as well . . . doesn't seem to hurt their ratings. Oh and people complain every year. If you think there is some mass movement of fans that would willing to jump back into MLS if they "just got the darn playoffs right" your dreaming. Also I am afraid if you think that the playoff formats of any professional sport in this country are independent of TV contracts I can't help you. The entire joke that is the NBA playoff system that takes five years to get through is due to TV. The length of baseball series in the earlier rounds largely consideration for TV. Getting the number of games right for MLS, a large input is TV.
Who did that? Who said any of that?? Jump back into MLS if they changed the format? I think you might be responding to the wrong post. I merely said that is one of the reasons people think of MLS as a joke. Not exclusively the reason. Not the main reason. ONE reason. It should be a time to celebrate soccer and crowning a champion. Instead, half the conversation I hear about is how sad the format is. You dont think people outside of hardcore MLS fandom pick up on this? Further, this is from my own experience. I got this impression from talking to people about this stuff in the leagues I play-in, the office I work in, from reading and watching TV. If you say I am wrong and people really dont care or dont notice, then maybe they dont. I am fine with that. I really dont feel especially compelled to try and convince you.
Are you saying there is no way to make the regular season achievment more commensurate with post season advantage because of our TV contract?
nope, but it isn't quite as easy as just deciding they want a three game series (for example) or single games. I don't think anyone on here is arguing in favor of the current approach, but you stated MLS doesn't care or they would change it (to what by the way) and stated TV had nothing to do with that position. That simply is not true. The number of games, the home and away, the horrible scheduling; TV is involved in all of those decisions with MLS.
No, responded to the part of your post where you state MLS is a joke. I always find that funny because the only people who ever say that are MLS fans and media types. Outsiders looking in, have no issue with MLS aside from their perception of the quality of play. People outside of MLS don't give a rats butt about the playoff structure - they just write it off as american. As for non "hardcore fans" they don't even read articles on the playoff structure, they certainly are not part of the "debate." We are. The hardcore fans are the only ones who have this conversation (including soccer writers trying to drum up business and 'hits' from us).
No fans have ever stopped watching the league for anything other than their perception of quality of play. They have no issues with anything else. Got it, Seth. PS: I like this silly Jasoma cat racing around here repping every positive MLS post. You Big Soccer guys crack me up.
As I said, if you think there is some massive group of would be fans that are just waiting for MLS to fix issues like the playoff structure, so be it. I am sure in New York city there is a group of fans right now heading for an early happy hour decrying the playoff structure as their barrier to joy an happiness. My advice would be if you think MLS is a joke, simply don't watch. You may feel better and find yourself with some more free time. I'll continue to hope for change understanding that the league is still growing in both TV coverage and the number of teams and will need to be stable before they get crap figured out.
Man you really want me to believe this, dont you? I have already said a bunch of times I do not think this. I think this is ONE of MLS issues. Just one man. I don't think droves of people are waiting for an email from Garber saying format has been change. You think MLS has one problem. You have it all figured out. Perceived quality of play. For me, perceived quality of play is perhaps the biggest issue MLS has, it isnt the ONLY issue they have. Yes, I know you disagree. And where did ever say that I thought MLS was a joke. Why would I stop watching? I have been a season ticker holder for like 11 years. For a few years, I used to have access to 50 seasons tickets and have been to games with many people and have heard lots of opinions. Some were fans of the league for a season or 2 then stopped watching. Some still watch and are long time fans. Some thought it was garbage at first sight and didnt give it a chance. Others dont have time to watch several leagues and prefer to watch better footy on TV. Some like going once in a while, but dont really follow it regularly. A German guy I know watches more MLS than Bundes these days. All sorts of different people deciding to watch for a multitude of different reasons. Quality of play is big. Perhaps MLS biggest obstacle. It's 100% NOT the only obstacle, I can assure you of that. More than just a few of the people above have been bored by how the MLS plays out. I have heard, "Then what is the point of the regular season" from more than just one or 2 guys over the years. I know you or your little puppy dog Jasoma wont believe it or think it doesnt matter, but my opinion based my experiences.
Look behind you, quick... I think you missed a few of Seths posts along the way. Lets get them repped out man, come on. And please don't rep my posts. I'd rather not have puppy dogging me around this place like you do to these other guys.
Believe what you want, I just don't see hoards of people who think MLS is a joke. I actually agree with you. Where we apparently disagree is that the other issues, particularly the one we are discussing in here the playoffs, is really "one of the reasons people think MLS is a joke." It certainly is an issue though. Of course people make their own decisions on whether to follow the league or not. Conversations about why football fans don't want the league don't fall to those topics. It doesn't mean they aren't issues, I agree. I just contend there are not folks with strong opinions on the league regarding anything other then quality of play, except for actual MLS fans. Non fans don't give those details a second thought.
True; but to me, that is preferable to a higher-seeded team returning home with a huge mountain to climb against an opponent that can simply park the bus to advance, even if it ends up letting in a goal. For one thing, it should make for a better game in the second leg.
The quality is not that bad. It is not that bad at all. It is almost about par to the second level of leagues around the world. Apart from the top-5 European leagues, MLS holds its turf pretty well. Comparing to baseball, would be a AA league with solid arguments to be promote to AAA (where Brazil, Argentina and Mexico are). The real problem is the lack of great teams, since parity holds the league a bit. But parity makes the league as interesting as unpredictable too. Hence, it is a not a problem per se.
It all depends if you want your champion to be the sprinter or the marathon runner. Currently with the playoff system, MLS is more like the sprinter. Single table leagues are more analagous to marathon runner. I would prefer if MLS could provide a middle ground format.
Ridiculous. There is not a team in the league that feels they don;t have to show up each week, because EVERY team can face the burden at the end of the year that one more win during the season may have meant the difference between being in the playoffs and not. And the only teams that possibly CAN dog it in any given week are the ones that are actually KILLING it every week, which does not hold much logic. I mean, if you are winning every week and assured of making the playoffs, you can dog it and not win every week? Not likely to be the mentality. The fact is, there are too many moving parts in this league i.e., too many teams all gunning to be one of the 50% in the playoffs, and there is simply not crystal ball. The risk of dogging it at ANY time during the season just seem too great to me - why would they do that? It always makes me laugh to hear from people who write that the regular season means nothing, as if all teams can simply waltz through the regular season without trying very hard and still make it. Almost HALF the teams don't make it - that is a huge percentage, and it seems too big a risk to let up at ANY point during the season. And the teams that appear to be dogging it? They are simply not very good, that's all. I doubt it has anything to do with lack of desire.
Teams might afford to relax a bit in the 80%-in era ('96-97, '02-04), but such good old days are obviously over now.