Anyone know if the change has done Hitz any good at Lazio? Going by what he did in Germany recently he has no business on the national team.
I agree with you. He has no business with the NT. In fact he never did.The 1 million euro was a fair price for his talent. Lazio is trailing 3-1 to Palermo, and he hasn't started this game. But he was a starter in the last Serie A game Lazio played.
I see he isn't getting anymore time at Lazio as he was at VFB. There is no way he can on the roster for South Africa, but I'm scared he will be there.
OK, it's a bit depressing to see how current German national team players end up on the bench in Serie A (sure he was also on the bench in the Bundesliga before that, but still). 20 years ago, German players were among the superstars of Serie A (Matthäus, Klinsmann, Brehme, Riedle, Kohler, Möller, Hässler, Völler). It's depressing to think a player of Hitzlsperger's level managed something like 60 caps already. To think that 20 years ago, a superb player like Uwe Bein hardly got a starting place in the German national team (17 caps altogether) shows how deep we've dropped in those 20 years. He'd be treated like a God if he'd play today...
About Bein: It is doubtful, if Bein had ever get a professional contract today. The game changed a lot in the last decade. Abou Hitz: No NT material.
Oliver Bierhoff too was the top scorer for a season with Udinese and had a moderately successful stint with AC Milan in the late 90s. But I know what you mean and I totally agree. When people like Arne Friedrich and Mertesacker have 70 and 60 caps, we know things are bleak. On an unrelated note: Take away the aberration of AC Milan wining the CL in 2007 and the Serie A has generally gone downhill vis a vis the other leagues in Europe. It isn't the same league where the Klinsmanns and Matthauses of the world plied their trade.
I can't understand your hatred of Mertesacker. He had the best Zweikampfwerte of 2006 torunament, also one of the best in '08. And he is by far the best CB in the actual Bundesliga season. Also he is, for a CB, very young and experienced. Your view on him must be biased.
Oh dear. Why is it that every time I criticize a player ( something that I haven't done here) somebody or the other starts using the H word. First Kuranyi now Mertesacker? What does zweikampfwerte mean? Like a winner in a duel/ 1 on 1 situation? Surprising that he scores above Cannavaro in that department for WC06? Probably he only attempted 1 tackle against some Costa Rican guy and won the duel, getting himself a 100% record. j/k Ok, I am not biased against him. I agree with all you say, about him being young and good and probably the best CB in Bundesliga. I have never contested that. What I am saying is that its a shame that a player of his caliber is a mainstay in the NT. And a bigger shame that he's the best. Kohler was as old as Mertesacker is now in 1990 when he won the cup. I don't think Merte's anywhere close to him. Mertesacker would never get into any team from 86 to 98 simple because there was just so much more defensive talent in those teams. He probably wouldn't even make the bench.
He just displaced this type of old fashioned CB like Köhler, Wörns etc. before '06. Imo you are glorifiying these old days a little bit too much. The hatred comes to mind because your criticism seems often inadequat and focused on a player.
thomas doll also did pretty well in italy in the early 90's. adding to the guys you already mentioned there was berthold at roma, reuter at juve, effenberg at fiorentina. overall german's have generally done pretty well historically in italy...schnellinger & haller in the 60's.. rummenigge,hansi mueller & briegel in the early to mid eighties. suprisingly the only guy that comes to mind that didnt really adapt was matthias sammer who only lasted a handful of months before going to dortmund and winning pretty much everything
Of course he would. I mean, seriously... Although compared to current Bundesliga players like Andreas Ottl or Sandro Wagner he sucks, of course.
Indeed. But to the worse (with regards to Germany). The game ca. 1990 was not notably slower than today. Hence fitnesswise all of the players from 1990 would hold their own today. Skillwise, German players from that era were almost all superior to the players we see playing for Germany today. The only major change that took place was the tactical set-up. 20 years ago the 3-5-2 system with a mixture of man-marking (in defense) and zonal-marking (rest of the pitch) was king in Germany, today the 100% zonal 4-4-2 is ruling. But the 100% zonal 4-4-2 was already in use 20 years ago by many other teams (club and country). Still Germany managed to play very successfully with their "old-fashioned" mix of man-marking and zonal-marking with a sweeper and 2 man-markers as opposed to the zonal flat back four. Thus even from a tactical viewpoint it is by now means safe that the German players from 1990 would have a hard time tactically today, as they faced the same formations prevalent today already in their era. Also pressing and the like was very common in 1990. Watching a game involving Germany from ca. 1990 is way more entertaining than what the current national team offers. The sheer talent available back then is breathtaking if compared to today. Just think about it: About 6 World Class players (Matthäus, Brehme, Klinsmann, Völler, Hässler, Littbarski - later Effenberg and Sammer), another 5 or so very excellent players (Thon, Möller, Riedle, Reuter, Bein, Doll). And that's not even looking at defense (Kohler, Augenthaler, Buchwald, goalies like Illgner, Aumann, Köpke). You say that Hitzsperger is no NT material, but how is it possible that he managed something like 60 caps already? This shows that the talent available the last 10 years was/is pretty scarce. Things could hardly have changed for the better if players like Hitzlsperger are international starting player for years. To suggest a supreme player like Uwe Bein would have difficulties getting a professional contract under these circumstances is bizarre.
The old-fashioned Jürgen Kohler at least managed a very successful 4-year-stint in Serie A playing for Juventus. He even managed getting voted best foreigner in Serie A once. I somehow doubt Mertesacker (arguably the best German defender around these days) could pull off something similar. But direct comparisons are hard as the task Mertesacker has today (central defender in a zonal flat back four) is very dissimilar to Kohler's task (man-marker in a 3-5-2 with sweeper). The only valid comparison that can be made is to look how the two players did in their respective eras. And Kohler easily outdid Mertesacker in that respect. During his prime, Kohler was internationally acclaimed as the world's best player in his position. Today, Mertesacker is nothing but an "also-ran" among international central defenders.
Who said that? I said Mertesacker is arguably the best defender in Germany today. The question was whether Kohler is (unjustly) "glorified". Let's wait 20 years and see what people will have to say about Mertesacker. I am pretty sure outside of Germany, hardly anyone will remember his name. That's not saying that he is no NT material or "shit". It's just saying that Kohler did much better in his time than Mertesacker is doing today. Internationally, Mertesacker is one of many, there is nothing outstanding about him, while Kohler in his era was one of the world's best. That's not "glorifying" Kohler at all, it's just a historic fact.
I don't think that was an awful statement. With regards to Friedrich it is correct. Mertesacker is the best that we have currently. He is 25 and has 60 caps already. If things go as expected, he will end up with something like 120 caps by the end of his career. I doubt Mertesacker would amass as many caps if he had to play for England, Italy, Brazil, Argentina or other top teams. Hence in that respect, having to depend on a player like Mertersacker - while good but not outstanding - is not a sign of high quality to pick from.
Again, he was the best player in case of 1on1 situations WC 06, one of the best in '08 and is currently the best this Bundesliga season. He's not perfect and he's still young for a CB though. This is hardly to compare but look at the CBs of Brazil and Argentinia.. imo he would be in all of that teams on a regular base. How could he can get and how we'll remember him in years it's again unfair to judge him now.
lol What a worthless statistic... That's like picking complete passes for Ottl for example with Bayern and saying look at his great % passing when all he does is pass it back. His positioning is suspect, his inability to make up for snail-like pace has cost him all his career bar later during the 06' tournament. Imo he reached his peak there and has never nor will look as good as he did then. Never a world class defender and will not be, in fact it scares me that his pace will get even worse with age... In 08, he was absolutely atrocious, how people can defend him just makes me cringe, as he got bossed in almsot every single match. Even Torres who completely piss poor the entire tournament, had his best match when he got paired vs our dynamic CB duo, where he kept bossing them all game. Calling Mertsacker the best CB in the Bundesliga is laughable. I'll take Badstuber over him any day and he's not been even top 5 this season.
