"Guest" player

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by drink your milk, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    We've been invited to guest play at the PDT and the email we have received so far as asked us to pay a portion of the tournament registration fee, the coaches accommodations, transportation, and a new uniform. What part of guest am I missing here?

    Our team has never requested those things of any players who have guest played with us at any tournaments. Take care of your own expenses and show up.

    Have any of you made these sorts of requests or anything similar for tournaments? And what was your reasoning?


  2. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Well, if your club doesn't ask guest players to pay for these things on out-of-town tournaments, that means that that everybody else paid so that that kid could join for free. It sounds like they were planning this enough in advance so that you're being asked to pay your share.

    I don't see a problem, to be honest.
  3. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I also have never been asked to pay for being a guest player. They had a need (not enough players available to do well in the tournament) and I was happy to oblige.

    However, that's only one way of looking at it. I think you're looking at the word too literally. To me, "guest" is just a term that means "not on your official league roster"... how you deal with the financials can be a whole separate thing.

    Another thing I'd clear up ahead of time is your kid's role and playing time. Will they get at least 50%? 75?% Will they have to play goalie? Will they ride the pine at crunch time? On the flip side, I don't think it's fair to take a marginal player's playing time.

    Many coaches abuse the system, don't enable them. Do the conscionable thing. If they have enough players, then they want the guest player to help 'em win the tournament. Really? That's some messed up priorities.

    I want to do right by kids' that come guest for my team, so they get a good share of playing time and generally play the roles they want.
  4. soccerwidow

    soccerwidow New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Our U9G was asked to guest at an out-of-state tourney last summer. We thought the same as Drink Your Milk - pay expenses and show up. We were asked to pay $250 to cover .... ??? Not sure what. My spouse, a college/club coach said "What??" He was very surprised to hear of the request as well as the amount. He never expects his guests to pay. I've never heard of him talk about having guests pay - just getting the player card and finding a uniform to borrow.

    The way I see it, the "guests" are doing the team a favor by providing an extra body and shouldn't be treated as a "regular player." They are giving up their free time to help someone else out. Coaches should expect to have guest players and should have an extra kit on hand, especially if you're going to the larger showcase tournaments.

    We'll think twice about guesting again if this is the trend.


  5. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    I agree SW. The team is Canadian and I don't want to be rude to the man and explain to him the general etiquette of guest playing in America, but I feel I'm going to have to. Because I think they are under the impression that the DD is now a member of their team and I am required to share a portion of their expenses.
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    The idea that you're doing the team a favor by just showing up and playing seems off to me.

    My son has guest-played a few times, and he wasn't asked to pay--but these were local tournaments, and they just needed an extra body to fill out a thin roster. It was sort of last-minute, and that was fine. Also, it was the club's own tournament.

    But if we were asked in advance to guest-play with a team at an out-of-town tournament, I would not feel right knowing that all the other families had paid the fee, covered the coach's travelling expenses, and so forth, while my son got to play for free.

    I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm wondering what's wrong with paying your share of the expenses? The way I look at it, the team is doing my son a favor by giving him an opportunity for some more playing time in a new environment.

    Seriously, I'm not pointing fingers and I don't mean to sound self-righteous. I'm honestly asking--is there something I'm missing?
  7. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    No, I don't think you're missing anything bigred. You have your opinion. I've just never seen anything done like this before. I thought it would be a great opportunity for the DD to play with an "international" team, but were not here to help offset their expenses. I can see possibly paying a share of the registration fee, but that's it.
    My daughter did PDT last year and her team came out very successful. Maybe she'll do it this year with an invite to another team. Maybe not. Learning experience for sure.
  8. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Some of the "fees" are definitely weird. New uniform? For one weekend? Coaches' accomodations? Agree the registration seems like fair game, but the above two seem weird.

    But I think it speaks volumes as to why they are having guest players—to offset their costs. Some teams bring on guest players to win, some just so they can play.
  9. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Yes, this team is bringing on players to fill in gaps because not everyone on their team can afford the expense of travel to the US. He pulled my name out of the got soccer listing. He even said as much that this is his first major soccer event in the states so I'm pretty sure he's very green to the whole thing. I wish him luck. But the new uniform just reeks of someone trying to fleece me.
    Our Team participated in the D'Feeter's (Dallas Tx) Showcase at Thanksgiving and because the team had so many injuries, we were fortunate enough to pick up 5 guest players with no problems at all. Because the team had prepaid the entire tournament fee regardless of the kids who were not going, it worked out to everyone's benefit. *Because our coach was approached by University programs for all the girls that played. It was a great success. And no one sat there and penny pinched on who owed what.
    (The girls that guested, showed up as a group of guest players and paid their own expenses. All we did was provide the uniforms. And these girls were taking an 8 hour drive to get to this tournament!)
  10. left foot mom

    left foot mom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    My daughter has guest played in a number of out of state tournaments and we have never been asked to pay for anything. In fact, our hotels rooms have been paid for by the team, in a couple of cases. Most teams have an extra set of uniforms that can be used for guest players.

    I guess I am in the camp that the gp is doing the team a favor by filling in for injured players, etc. The player is taking a risk by playing for a team not their own (injury, etc) and I don't believe they should pay for the 'priviledge' of taking that risk...
  11. mdc00

    mdc00 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    I agree with BRF. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer, and I think it depends upon the extent to which the guest player is doing the team a favor as compared to the reverse.
  12. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    How is it a favor? You're making it sound like someone has bestowed some noble gift upon the other. It's mutually beneficial to everyone involved. Team thinks player is worthy, player thinks team is worthy. There you have it. It comes down to a matter of etiquette on the team requesting the player.
  13. left foot mom

    left foot mom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    The teams my daughter has guested for have usually been in the same league and at times, same division as her club team. The fact that she is helping a competing team win trophies, gain points, etc., to me, is a favor to that team. We allow it because she likes to play with girls she knows from school or ODP but we have coaches and parents that have given us a lot of grief for letting her play.
  14. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Oh Amen to that sister! I didn't think to put that headache into consideration.
    God bless you for having to fight that fight as well. You do what you do, to keep your baby playing strong and proud! How old?
  15. travelmomnew2soccer

    travelmomnew2soccer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    the concrete state
    i agree, guests don't pay.

    the team budget should include the coaches expenses and guest uniforms. asking the guest to pay is a fundraiser. any player that cannot make the tournament has already contributed.

    my daughter has guested since U8. we have only been asked to pay once. it was a local tournament and it was 25.00. i did it because she wanted to play that weekend and they were the only team that responded to our guest play request. if any other team had responded, we would have gone with them. this coach has asked her to guest a few times every year since and but i know it comes with a fee. it also didn't do anything for my daughter except boost her ego. the team was a lower level than she plays and she got more playing time than most of the rostered players bceause she could get the ball in the net. if my daughter was rostered, i would have a problem with this.

    the only way i will pay again is if the club/team/tournament was a good opportunity that my daughter might not normally have without guesting.
  16. travelmomnew2soccer

    travelmomnew2soccer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    the concrete state
    i actually had a team mom confront me once..."why didn't he(the coach) recommended my daughter to guest? my daughter is better than yours." she shut her mouth pretty quick when i explained to her that the coach had nothing to do with my daughter's guesting opportunities. i didn't sit around and wait for her to be asked. i sought out those opportunities for her.

    because she has guested she knows many more girls from other towns that she wouldn't normally know. she also enjoys doing it. :D

    guesting opens your player up to the chance of injury when they normally wouldn;t be playing and most coaches don't want to hear they got hurt while guesting. they also fear you'r shopping.
  17. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    My son guest-played once on a team that frankly needed all the help it could get. What I mostly remember is that I did not feel right seeing my son starting and playing for free while kids whose parents had actually paid were sitting on the bench. I would never do that again.
  18. drink your milk

    drink your milk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    so you would have felt better to have paid to play. How about you go ahead and break it down and actually pay for the time your child is on the field, touches on the ball, and goals scored.
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    In that situation--yes, I would have. There was no particular advantage for that team or that club, long-term, in doing better at that tournament just by by bringing in my son and two other guest players. Yes, the team did better than they would have otherwise--but so what? In this case, I saw no real advantage. They didn't need the extra players--my son was taking playing time from kids on the bench who were on that team, and whose parents had paid. That was unfair and wrong--in that situation.

    FWIW, my son and the other players who guested that weekend continued to be invited to train with this club (for free) and guest play in other situations. I chose not to. One of the other kids did, however--he trained with this club at least once a week, and guest-played at one or two other tournaments. Clearly, they were trying to recruit new players. I heard through the grapevine that there was some resentment and tension as a result of this kid getting to play and train for free. In this particular case, I'm glad we chose not to continue taking the opportunity to guest. Again, as a parent I felt it was unfair to other families and other children.

    Had this team actually been short players--missing some for ODP, family or school events, whatever--that would have been different. But from what I saw, they were just trying to win tournaments that they weren't strong enough to win with their regular roster, and probably recruit for the future. So you had kids sitting on the sidelines

    Are you offended? Instead of explaining why you think some situations warrant waiving the team fee/tournament fee/coaches traveling fee for guest players--and you may be right--you resort to snark and sarcasm. Why?

    Again, every situation is different. I'm curious where and when it's OK to guest play for free and when it isn't. I think you have to consider issues such as the level of play, the age level, the number of players on a roster and the number available for a given tournament, the total cost, the amount of advance warning, etc.

    If a kid is local, a team shows up or makes its travel plans and then realizes that it needs extra players, and they ask the kid to show up and help the squad--then yes, I can absolutely understand why waiving that kid's share of the cost is justified. In the example with my son, that was NOT the case, which is why I felt uneasy about the whole situation.

    I only know my experience--and what I've seen, all too often, is that guest players are simply ringers from outside the club brought in to help a team win a tournament; there's usually some recruiting going on as well. Which in and of itself isn't a problem--IF there's a need for a player for depth. But more often than not (and again, this is only in my experience), it seems that the team already had plenty of players, so that the guest player ends up keeping other players on the bench longer than they would have otherwise.

    Ultimately, I see guest playing as an opportunity to get more touches and some additional training. As a general rule, when I've signed my kid up for any opportunity for additional training or playing opportunities, I've paid for it. The situation I described above--the tournament was on a holiday weekend, and I assumed that this team was missing players due to vacations. When I realized that wasn't the case, it just didn't sit right with me.

    So--if there are alternate scenarios, I can easily see where guest playing WOULD be doing the host club a favor; in which case waiving the fee is fully justified. But that hasn't been my experience, either personally or through observation. However, it's a big world out there and other people have had other experiences.

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