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Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by drink your milk, Aug 12, 2010.
How important are these rankings exactly?
How important? They're not.
anyone else have any opinions?
Any youth soccer ranking system based on a team's record is weak, and that's all these rankings are about. In youth soccer you want to know which club is the best at developing each player, not who is the best at building a team.
If you're wondering who is the best, then find a way to review the products of that club. Which club has the most professionals and what level are those pros at?
Unfortunately, many clubs figure out what criteria a ranking system uses and then plays and plan out the season in order to maximize their team's rankings. Also unfortunate is that a lot of tournaments will use ranking to figure out the seedings of teams or even what teams are admitted or excluded from their tournament. There is another independent ranking system that only ranks the 17s & 18s and seems to be more accurate than GotSoccer, NSR or SIC. ( http://www.girlssoccerrate.com/ )
As Monkey Boy mentioned, do not look at the ranking if you are trying to decide on a club for your child. Look at how they develop their players and try to find out if the club philosophy meshes with your own. FWIW, Top Drawer Soccer ranks clubs in terms of development. Their rankings are based on multiple criteria. But again, take those ranking with a grain of salt.
I never thought of it that way. Thanks.
I do find it comical how important these things are to some people. As ludicrous as it is for someone to flaunt the ranking of their son's or daughter's team like it is meaningful or useful for anything, it is just as ludicrous to attach some level of evil to rankings. I've had quite a number of entertaining conversations over sodas! I keep trying to remind myself to not sweat the small stuff. Youth rankings, at least for me, fall into this category.
The rankings aren't as useful as the head-to-head records listed for each team. If for example a PAE team is playing a NYE team for the first time, they can look and see if the NYE team has played any common opponents and how they did. Or a TD can see if a particular team has played tough competition before.
As for whether a club is "good", remember that some of the top clubs, like PDA for girls teams, will end up with the best players and be able to market them better than almost any club, but clearly did not develop them.
If a parent has a choice, once a player is 13 or 14 and shows a high level of skill and interest in soccer, they should look at their child joining a club that has a lot of experience with college scouts and potential for trials with pro clubs. In the US, generally the academy programs (USSDA) are the best bet now, but there are a few major clubs that can give a player great opportunities to be seen.
Frankly if a player is excellent, they could play for any general team, of any rank and skill level, and still join a summer or ODP team and get recruited.
What is the least important thing you can think of?
They are much less important than that.
They may be important for tournament directors choosing a top flight group for a large tournament.
For about anyone else, they mean nothing. For me, they are more fun than anything.
also deceiving. rankings don't calculate guests into the equation.
could they have won that big tournament without the three guests?
It is impossible to have a reliable youth soccer ranking system. Just too many clubs. My daughter's team is in the top 50 in one service and in the 1,200s in another. Neither is right. It seems most of these rankings are tied into tournament production or software companies. These rankers reward the teams that play in their tourneys. Directionally, they can be used to tell that Team X is likely better than Team Y if both have been properly evaluated by the service. But there are too many teams to have an effective solution. When unknown, unranked Team Z goes to a tourney and kicks the bejeebers out of everyone no one should be surprised. There's no way of getting a good handle on the whole landscape.
I think you have a vaild point . I think the ranking are good sometimes because you can see what teams other teams played against. Yes some teams have guest players but for the most part the teams at the upper end usually belong someplace near the top. Most teams that we have played in the suppose top 10 are teams that seemed liked they belong in the top 10 percent. Saying all that I would not book any of the games in Vegas LOL
Guest .... WTF ?? I never heard of this designation. They let that in US Club or RPL ? Our club would pull kids up from their younger group if they didn't have a full roster or play short handed. Guest....Whats the point or benefit of that?
I think a clubs ranking should also include how many scholarships and how many D1 colleges picked up players for their teams. This represents a valid form of measurement for result production in player development. Our five year old club's U-17's faired well with many placements and scholarships. Potential for being seen, how many showcase events is the team qualified to play in? Our kids coach is very strict about maintaining proper grade point in order to stay at the academy. Reports are in... a great GPA is very helpful to combine with talent in landing a scholarship. One less obstacle.
A club should also be ranked in how many scholarships it provides it's own members...to kids of lesser means. It's important that financial wherewithal not be a detriment and that every Soccer organization do it's part to make this so.
Now.... Where's our kid sign up to play as a guest? ......
Possible good motives:
1) Covering for regular players who can't make the tournament;
2) Giving a kid from outside the club a chance to tryout, since league games are for rostered players;
3) Fleshing out the roster for a tournament in which young players are going to have to play 3-5 games, possibly more, in two or three days.
Possible not-so-good motives:
4) The coach wants to win the tournament at all costs, even at the expense of benching some of his own players.
In my experience, #4 is the most common.
Got Soccer Rankings are about Got Soccer selling their tournament management software not about actually creating credible rankings.
My state just went to carding through GotSoccer. So far it has been miserable - usually teams are carded by the first or second week of August, with the start of the carding year September 1.
Today is September 1, and there are many teams that do not have their cards yet because the system can't handle it (too many teams maybe, not sure?). They also have had problems with dual carding.
I also just saw some tournaments that had the schedule part of GotSoccer, with the scores, working, but the Standings and Results did not show the info. I suppose if you are the only game in town, you get a lot of business even if your product is not quality.
GotSoccer is becoming sillier and sillier.
For NJ, the top three U14B teams are:
- A team that folded in August
- A team that is U15B (all 1996 pre-academy)
- A team from PAE
Throughout the list there are multiple PAE and NYE teams, and multiple folded teams that have players duplicated on other teams. I can understand that if a team folds, their points don't go away until they expire. But I can't understand how the age issue and out-of-state team issue occurs and is not resolved.
the rankings are good for a general idea but for exact top rankings are no where near accurate the top 25 though are usually pretty accurate as for the teams
The professionals and college players can come strictly from connects. Let's be honest here, our college players are glorified AYSO players. Our seeding system for the national team is severely tainted and run with politics as well. It is sort of weeding out the scrubs now because of our lack of talent shining through in international comparisons.
American soccer is not like our football, basketball, or baseball where your obvious talent can take you places.
Money and resources talk in youth soccer. So, you may be better than Rob, but his mom is the manager, has known the coach for 3 years, and gets Robby free sessions from him, while the other kid goes unnoticed. So, the other kid might have more raw talent that is never developed.
My son is 8... this is his first year playing organized soccer. The dude is averaging around 5 goals a game. He played football last year (rb) and broke his arm. He has been practicing soccer since 3 and his sister started playing. I took what you guys said here about the American Athelete seriously and put in the work to make my family a soccer household. I never played it a day in my life, but watch it every day, take my kids to games, and really study the sport. It doesn't matter what his team's success looks like because despite the coach, it relies on him and his teammates. Same goes for rankings... a boomball team cannot beat my dd's Silver Elite Team anymore. We have been winning and playing the right way for about 2 years straight.
Development is not all about "Close Eyed Training And Correction." It is about growing up in soccer, loving it, studying it, and making yourself better...just like american football, baseball, and basketball.
Slammers, Blues, WCFC, and Arsenal all produce top notch players... some of it is recruiting the right members of a team, but more of it is on the shoulders of the players that do the extra. So, because you don't have multitudes in Professional Soccer, it doesn't mean you are not a great coach... but could mean the right talent just has not come along for that recognition, or you have not been brown nosing college coaches, are not familiar with the politics, or you are worried about the kids in front of you and not the professional players you can get to the pros.
I'm just sayin...
Rankings tend to generate discussion and, hopefully, promote interest in the sport. In New Jersey, The Star-Ledger runs a Top 20 each week and included in it on some weeks, in a explanation for moves within it as well as teams on the rise. It's pretty cool and maybe worth checking out.
On top of that, they runs girls soccer blogs nearly every day.