Gold Cup - July 2013

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by keller4president, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

    Aug 25, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    Okay, now that we have a general idea about who will make it (Assuming there are no big upsets in the Central American Cup) I see the Groups breaking down this way:

    Mexico
    Canada
    Martinique
    Guatemala
    This group plays in California and Texas

    USA
    Costa Rica
    Cuba
    El Salvador
    This Group plays in the North East, Midwest.

    Honduras
    Panama
    Trinidad & Tobago
    Haiti
    This Group plays in New York, DC and Miami.
     
  2. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My roster would be:

    GK
    Guzan
    S. Johnson
    Hamid

    D
    Castillo
    Morrow
    Gonzalez
    Besler
    Hines
    Okugo
    Beitashour
    Lichaj

    M
    Corona
    Diskerud
    Gyau
    Kitchen
    Shea
    Beasley
    Edu
    Gatt

    F
    Agudelo
    Boyd
    Bruin
    Sapong


    -----------------Boyd
    --Shea--------Corona----Gatt
    -----------Kitchen-Edu
    Castillo-Besler-Gonzalez-Lichaj
    ------------Guzan
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  3. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    I don't buy it. The Gold Cup is a big deal to a team like Jamaica and they know they have plenty of fans in the U.S. who would turn out for them.

    And isn't there money to be earned in the tournament? Money their program could definitely use...
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Perhaps. But the Gold Cup is a bigger deal in 2011 or 2015.

    And those same fans would likely rather attend Hex matches (the one in the US and probably some of the 5 that JAM will host in 2013) than the 3 (plus perhaps 3 more) matches the team would have played had they qualified for the 2013GC.

    There's also money (and probably relatively a lot more of it) to be earned by qualifying for the WC.

    Not at all sure how appearing (or not) in the Gold Cup during a Hex year is beneficial (or not) to a team like Jamaica, if their true target is World Cup qualification this cycle.

    I wouldn't discount the idea of Jamaica not being all that concerned with the 2012 Caribbean Cup and the 2013 Gold Cup. (But in the long run, I can't see how not qualifying for the 2013 GC will be viewed as a good thing for the Jamaican NT program. Unless of course they somehow get to Brazil in 2014, then I don't think anyone will care that they didn't participate in the 2013GC.)
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sorry, I don't buy it.

    Jamaica fielded just about the best roster they could made of MLS and Scandinavian-based talent. (essentially their version of a camp cupcake roster) If you compare their roster to the other teams in the Caribbean Cup, they fielded what should have been the strongest team. They were "going for it." There was no team in the Caribbean Cup that could field attacking players like Darren Mattocks, Omar Cummings, and Ryan Johnson. Hell, if those players were USMNT-eligible we may have taken a look at them.

    And let's not kid ourselves. Missing the Gold Cup could be a big problem for them on a couple of levels.

    1) They're trying to recruit a bunch of England-based players to their cause. This can't help in the recruiting process.

    2) Their plan was to undoubtedly use the Gold Cup to blend in these new players for the Hex. The Hex is obviously very important to them. However these new players need games at a good level to blend in with the existing team. These are players who have no clue what CONCACAF football is like.

    3)I know people think that this Gold Cup is "meaningless." But it's not. It's a great opportunity to test fringe and young players in a competition that actually matters. It gives nations a chance to identify players that can help them going forward. Jamaica now isn't going to have that same chance. Yes, they can now schedule some friendlies. But it's not the same. You don't know how a young player is going to respond to pressure until you actually test them in a pressure-packed situation.


    3) Missing the Gold Cup can be devastating to a CONCACAF nation's FIFA ranking. While many of us think those are meaningless, they do have all sorts of seeding ramifications in future events.

    The overall premise that if they qualify for the 2014 World Cup, nobody will care that they missed the 2013 Gold Cup...................is absolutely right. However, not qualifying for the 2013 Gold Cup hurts their chances of qualifying for the 2014 World Cup. It certainly doesn't help.
     
    CTS26 and FlipsLikeAPancake repped this.
  6. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Fair enough.

    And I'm not sure I buy it or not. And it does seem pretty speculative to say that JAM tried to tank the Caribbean Cup so as to not be involved with the Gold Cup in a Hex year.

    Sure, their roster "says" they were "going for it."

    But did anyone here actually watch the Caribbean Cup matches? How did the team actually play?

    Sure, it could be a problem.

    But it could also not be much of a problem at all. (Again, pending their results within the relatively independent process of fighting through the Hex schedule -- and possible Nov playoff matches.)

    (We certainly can't analyze both the hypothetical of JAM participating and the reality of JAM not participating in the 2013 Gold Cup.)

    So "a bunch of England-based players" would be recruited to "the cause" of playing in both a "relatively meaningless" Gold Cup in July and "the cause" of playing in the Hex to qualify for the WC? Or would the same bunch of players actually be better (or equally) recruited by just the lure of the Hex competition (and the WC carrot) on its own?

    The Hex will be 60% finished by the time the GC rolls around.

    JAM has a Hex match in Feb, two in March and three in June -- so the July placement of the Gold Cup doesn't much help them for those key matches earlier in the calendar year.

    (And honestly, it could be possible that JAM could be "all but eliminated" after their first 6 Hex games.)

    This is a very good point. But there's also the (lesser) point that those "fringe and young players" could (hypothetically) be better tested (even in "meaningless" games -- should JAM be "out of it" -- toward the end of their Hex schedule).

    The level of competition (b-squads likely among at least the Hex participants) available at the 2013 Gold Cup will not be nearly has helpful as the level of competition within the Hex itself.

    But yes, overall, I agree with the "lost opportunity" that the 3-6 GC games would have presented to JAM. But I think that "lost opportunity" pales in comparison to, and is rather independent from, the real challenge and opportunity that is available to them within the Hex (and potentially the Nov playoff).

    Agreed.
    And those ramifications would/could likely be overcome by JAM finding success in the Hex.
    (But if JAM misses the WC, then yes, missing the GC will be earlier salt in that same wound that will come back to slightly haunt and affect them as well.)

    Agreed, for the most part.

    But if/since getting to the WC is the true target, I don't honestly see how playing the Gold Cup in July is a "better help" than not being in that competition but arranging from some friendly matches -- possibly against opponents who are ranked higher than some/most of the GC-qualified teams.

    It will be interesting to see if all of HON, CRC and PAN qualify for the 2013 Gold Cup. (The assumption is they all should relatively easily do so, correct?)

    For the Hex-qualified teams in 2013, I'm not convinced there's a (significant) benefit to also playing an additional 3-6 "competitive games" (likely with lesser rosters in the GC) in July -- when the real focus has to be on those 10 Hex matches and the target of the World Cup.
     
  7. az2004

    az2004 Member

    Jun 5, 2012
    jamaica needs depth for the hex, and a gold cup willl help their coach select their bench

    personally, i don't have then in the top 3, but if they plya new zealand, i give them a good enough chance

    bleeping up now doesn't put them in a good position though
     
  8. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Yes, it "would have helped" for the final 40% of the Hex.

    In 2013, the Gold Cup will be of no help for the first 6/10ths of the Hex. (Regardless if said nation is playing in the GC or not.)

    It will be interesting to see what Jamaica is able to get on their friendly calendar in 2013. (And admittedly there are not a lot of available dates, what with the Hex, and other competitions for other nations, taking a lot of the FIFA dates in 2013.)

    imo, JAM is not going to finish ahead of or behind PAN, CRC, HON (or even the US and MEX) within the Hex because of who does and who does not participate (and with what rosters) in the Gold Cup in July.

    The Hex and the Gold Cup are two relatively (or incredibly, imo) non-linked processes/competitions in 2013. (I'm not certain anyone could pinpoint true benefits or hindrances for those nations playing in the 2013 Gold Cup -- if the target is to finish in the top3 or top4 of the Hex.)
     
  9. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    It will be very interesting to see, of those who are selected to the Gold Cup squad, how many of these players also get minutes in the Hex games (either the first six prior to July or the last four after July) in 2013. Will the 2013 Gold Cup be a help to JK as he seeks depth for his roster, should it need bolstering and tweaking for the WCQ matches in the fall?

    Does anyone have the Gold Cup and Hex minutes played overlap among US players in 2009 (or 2005, or earlier)?

    i.e. -- players who saw some minutes in Hex matches, how many minutes did they play in those GCs of the same year? and players who saw some minutes in Gold Cup matches, how many minutes did they play in those Hex matches of the same year?
     
  10. j0osh

    j0osh Member

    Dec 8, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jamiaca went scoreless against Martinique, French Guyana and mfing Cuba.

    I don't see how that is possible.
     
  11. az2004

    az2004 Member

    Jun 5, 2012
    we have no idea how new jamaicans will get blooded, it seems newbies will get throuwn right in, which isn't all that comforting

    i'm not betting on them at all isay 6th is more likely than any other finish
     
  12. az2004

    az2004 Member

    Jun 5, 2012
    we have no idea how new jamaicans will get blooded, it seems newbies will get throuwn right in, which isn't all that comforting

    i'm not betting on them at all isay 6th is more likely than any other finish
     
  13. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

    Aug 25, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    My new Group prediction if Cuba drops out:

    Mexico
    Canada
    Martinique
    Guatemala
    This group plays in California and Texas

    USA
    Costa Rica
    T&T
    El Salvador
    This Group plays in the North East, Midwest.

    Honduras
    Panama
    Dominican Republic
    Haiti
    This Group plays in New York, DC and Miami.
     
  14. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you mean if Cuba drops out? Have they given indication that they would do so, and if so why? Because players defect?
     
  15. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

    Aug 25, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    I just read a rumor in another thread they may drop out. Defections would be the main reason I imagine.
     
  16. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm looking forward to the GC I want to see the core of the U23 team get a chance to play together again. I also would like for EDU to play CB, he needs the reps. Also I would like to see if JAB is serious about us. And if Aron J. comes our way to see him play up close to the rest of the young ones. I would like to see a starting 11 of....

    BOYD
    SHEA--JOHANNSSON--GATT
    MORALES--MIX
    LICHAJ--JAB--EDU--HENLEY
     
  17. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brooks won't play both the U20s and Gold Cup.
     
  18. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    can't I dream :)
     
  19. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Always
     
  20. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like this roster, except for Beasely inclusion. I would switch him out for O'brien. And Beckerman will probably make this squad.
     
  21. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well it was more what I wanted that what I expected, but O'Brien is a good addition.
     
  22. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. NatsTeamFan

    NatsTeamFan Member

    May 9, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    U-20 Qualifying? As in you don't think his club would release him? Or do you think he wouldn't commit to the USA since it would cap-tie him? His club would have to release him for the Gold Cup as it's an official FIFA date I think.
     
  24. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The U-20 World Cup in the summer (assuming qualification). His club won't release him for qualifying, but I also think they aren't going to want him to play the entire summer.
     
  25. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brooks wants to play in the U20 World Cup. He has said its a top goal and very important to him

    He won't play in both the GC and the U20 WC. If the US U20 team qualifies for the WC, the best U20 guys will be there (Brooks, Packwood, Joya, Gil, and even Henley if he decides to play for the US)
     

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