Going into this round we needed CB's; Going into next round we still do!

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by West Coast Futbol, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Goodson, Bocanegra, Edu, and Cameron will get the call. I'd guess Brooks and maybe an MLS centerback also get called in. Okugo with Philly being out of the playoffs would be in prime position if he's on Klinsmann's board.
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  2. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Calling Bocanegra and Goodson at this point is beyond wrong. They are such known quantities by the staff that having them there is counter productive for finding new talent. This is not going to be a first choice squad.

    I think JK calls in 5 CB's: Cameron, Edu, Ream and the two best available MLS CBs'....with Brooks and Whitbread (yes) as alts
  3. West Coast Futbol

    West Coast Futbol Member

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    I would like to see Boca (current USMNT captain) and Edu give it a go. Goodson and Cameron have contributions to make, but both just do not pair well with Boca. Since I think the only one who is in (next round) for sure is Boca, and I think Edu's tool bag compliments Boca, I would like to see the pair together at CB for several matches.
  4. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I think you are looking at it from the wrong direction...I believe Boca doesn't pair up well with the rest of the CB corp. He was the best of the group but I don't think that is case anymore.
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  5. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    Boca shouldn't be starting himself. It's not who pairs with him.
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  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

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  7. West Coast Futbol

    West Coast Futbol Member

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    Could be as this is definitely Boca's last hurray.

    But IMO I see zip out of MLS as far as CB's that can defend, move and distribute the ball. I think (hope!) that is JK's direction. We have several that can perform some or parts of the role very well, but not all three. This I think position is shaping to be our achilles this cycle.
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  8. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    The fourth in my opinion would be between Boca and Goodson.
  9. deejay

    deejay Member+

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    It's as a good a group as we've ever had. Most of them have middling to decent technical ability. Some have good ability. A lot of them have size, speed and smarts.
  10. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I agree with you providing JAB and Edu see more first team time and continue to progress, otherwise the old guard should be ahead of them, sad thought but realistic.
  11. West Coast Futbol

    West Coast Futbol Member

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    There was a well known coach (Wooden) that says speed and quickness are misunderstood. It is much better to have both but if you are goinf to be known for one, make it quickness. IMO that also applies to futbol.

    In the case of Gonzalez, he has decent speed but IMO lacks any quickness. IMO, he did not have international level quickness before his injury and didn't pick up any while rehabilitating. Can you get away without any quickness?

    Probably; usually by being overly conservative in style. A sytle that Arena's employs inLAG matches. Or by observing the play and being in the right place at the right time all the time. Maybe Gonzalez fits the second type. I do not think so as I have seen in person, folks blow by him and he just stick a leg out and bring them down (the professional foul v Davide Chiumientos 9/2011). Guys get position on him (Lenhart) and it frustrates him (see diatribe on the gals web site). These are a couple of examples of lack of quickness to me and will be punished at the international level.
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  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

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    The problem with NT CBs who play DMs for their club is exactly that: ball watching.

    They expect the guy behind them to get the escaping attacker. By the time their brain realizes what's going on, that one second, it's too late.
  13. oscar_in_fw

    oscar_in_fw Member

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    I wish Cameron were playing CB for Stoke; otherwise, how can he be a mainstay at that position for the US team? It's hard to imagine he actually fits in better at Stoke in the DM or RB role because of his technical skills in comparison to the other Stoke players. Any other EPL team would likely play him at CB (or leave him in the bench).
  14. sMiLeYz

    sMiLeYz Member

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    I thought he was terribly exposed when the USA played Brazil right after the world cup. He has a trouble dealing with quick, small, tricky players.

    Bocanegra was never going to outrun a Usain Bolt, but he deals with the Neymar types pretty well.

    I'm actually down for trying Jermaine Jones at Center-back. I was watching him play for Schalke at Arsenal and was blown away with how calm he was sitting deep. This allows Danny Williams to sit in front of Jones, the other can cover if one of them decides to run up field with the ball. This puts our best players one the field.
  15. 1oohptoyopu

    1oohptoyopu Member

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    The fact you could make any sort of judgement on the talent (what we're discussing) of a player based on him getting headbutted in a USL game and months later suffering an ankle sprain is telling for me.

    What is more telling is that you are parroting a recent (and now pervasive) talking point that John is injury prone and therefore not NT material. I would just like to point out that this was recently started by a couple of posters who have never thought John was a talent and are so ego driven that they will spread lies before posting something like "he might be aaiiightt...lets have Klinnsman take a closer look"
    They are what some call haters, what I call clowns...but woe is the reader who looks at their post count and assumes them factual or wise.

    MLS minutes played from seasons 2010-2012*
    6,675 - George John
    6,665- Matt Besler
    6,176- Omar Gonzalez
    5,617- Geoff Cameron

    www.mlssoccer.com/players/
    *Does not include USOC or CCL of which Gonzalez logged many minutes and John logged every FCD minute in 2011
  16. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    A few of us have been wanting to see that tested for over a year. Jones has played a bit of CB in the Bundesliga, when needed in a pinch, and has been OK. But it doesn't look like JK has any interest in such an experiment. Edu seems like his only CB conversion possibility, and JK still loves JJ as an assertive box-to-box #8.
  17. soccerusa517

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    Yea Klinsmann needs to have some discussions with Boca. That's going to be tough, captain, leader, experienced veteran. Back in his mind Boca probably knows it's coming. Not only is it important to find a pairing but it's also important that the new CB pairing get's minutes together. Because you could have two competent CB's individually but they have to play collectively and have time to form that sense/understanding.
  18. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

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    Do people really think JK is playing Boca because he is afraid to tell him his days are numbered?
    JK is the guy who took Oliver Kahn, the captain of the German National Team and legendary figure and made him the #2 GK behind Lehman. Telling Boca that he is going to be doing a lot of bench warming is a stroll down Manhattan Beach on a beautiful June Day compared to telling Kahn he is now the #2 GK behind someone who plays in England and is known to be somewhat of a flake. Benching Kahn was a big, big deal in Germany. I suggest that JK is playing Boca for reasons other than sentiment.

    When JK was first hired, he said quite publicly how Boca would never play LB again for the USMNT saying that at LB, you only get 90% of what Boca can do vs 100% at CB (something like that). Oh well, tough to never say never and kudos to JK for not letting something he said previously guide what he thinks is the right thing to do at the moment.

    I wish we had some CB's that are obviously ready to come in and really do the job at the international level. At least better than Boca does. However, I think right now there is mostly a lot of wishful thinking going on vs dealing with the reality of the situation. I hope I am wrong because the US does need to be stronger at CB.

    Below is field level view of the Guatemala goal. Is Cameron faster than Boca? Maybe after 20yds but it isn't by a lot and to me there is no doubt that Boca is more agile and balanced than Cameron. Cameron is a good defender when he mostly is moving forward such as DM or even RB. CB is different.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/QLwDxFIBlAY

    I'm not a fan of just moving a DM to CB, but if I had to, I think it would be Jones as his athleticism is very good and has the experience to make the right decisions. Whether he has the temperament is another question. Not sure how Edu can even be considered until there is some inkling that he will start seeing game time and then somewhat regularly.
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  19. West Coast Futbol

    West Coast Futbol Member

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    I hope to start to see Edu there in Russia. Edu played CB alongside Cameron in the Azteca win and that might get him the opportunity to show more.
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  20. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Bocanegra is adequate at centerback. He's got experience. And he's got incumbency. There's no need to rush.

    On other hand it's pretty obvious Cameron is faster and more agile than Bocanegra especially if one has seen both play in England. Bocanegra was barely adequate as a defender on a relagation fighter and certainly didn't have ball skills or physical qualities to in midfield.

    The real problem is there are no centerback candidates who have the experience at a high enough level as 'proof' they are better than Boca. There's no one holding down a starting spot at a higher level than the upper reaches of the 2nd divs of Spain, England, and Germany. In other words there are a bunch of unknown quantities.

    Graham Zusi and Alan Gordon were unknown quantities before being dropped in the middle of crucial qualifiers and succeeding. There's no reason some of the centerback candidates can't succeed and exceed the incumbent.
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  21. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    The problem or concern with an Edu - Cameron pairing is that both do not play CB for Stoke. Cameron has been playing RB and Edu hasn't played much at all this season. Cameron did not play very well the last two USMNT games, is it because he's playing RB for club? I do not see Jones as a capable option at CB and would prefer not to put anymore dmids there.
  22. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

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    Edu or Jones shouldn't be considered as CB options for the USMNT, we already have Cameron who is playing out of position so we can't afford to have 2 players playing CB for the USMNT who don't even play CB for their clubs.
  23. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

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    JK needs to try Gonzalez, JAB, Besler or whoever to replace Bocanegra by the time the hex starts.
  24. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    Well I know it's an option based solely on their Azteca performance. Now a few months later one is still struggling for playing time and the other isn't even playing CB for his club. This worries me.
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Brooks went 90 in a 1-1 draw against first place Eintracht Braunschweig today.........................

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