German National Team News & Discussion Thread - EURO 2012 & Beyond [R] II

It's more than just him. Some Gomez defenders here seem to be taking this extremely personal as well.

The second half, we were just content to play the match out and not lose but I wouldn't say that was indicative of any tactical approach that limited us. Instead we just got lazy but a positive is that we played possession a bit more cautiously and it tired the opposition out. It's not the negative retention that we played in the summer but a sign that it can finally be used to build attacks with a plan instead of just passing it for the sake of possession.

 

Its funny that people here think such formation work for us JUST because it looks better on paper. Everything is hypothesis and people ALL ASSUME IT WORKS. IT MAY OR MAY NOT, but what is the alternative if we dont have a decent starting striker? Winning teams (including our biggest rivals in Spain(they have Great strikers like Llorente, Torres and Negrado) and Italy all have 2 other tactics in the pocket)

This is not how football works. If we just wanna play all our better players on the pitch, and make in looks good on paper, we shouldnt even play our left back or any center backs of ours other than Hummels.

I remember watching Kehdira, Kroos, Goetze and Ozil kept passing it to each other for 79 minutes in their own little game with no movement. And that was the Austria-Germany game if u guys have short term memories; I also remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********ing shoot on target boys!!!!"

Its Tiki Taka Football

I emphasize the importance of "first-touch finishing". Among Reus, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Oezil, Goetze and Kroos, i wonder who is better at off-the-ball movement within the penalty box. Muller is the best, but can he win in a position battle inside the box and make first-touch finishing/headers? Big question mark there, and who else can?

Its not like we have a Lionel Messi in the roster. And how does it hurt to have more weapons(first-touch finishing, aerial threats) in our offensive arsenal?

Just simply passing from one corner to another corner, keeping possession but no one executes......is it really a good thing?

Many question marks there

 

I'm confused. Why wouldn't it suit our strength? Isn't the model to use technical and creative players to compensate for the lack of a "true" striker? Did Spain have Messi?

Everything that hasn't happened yet is hypothetical by your definition. Should we have never switched to a 4-4-2? Should we have never switched to a 4-2-3-1? The whole point is to develop what you now deem as hypothetically lacking. You don't transition to perfection, you work towards it with the goal to optimize team performance.

 

No...they had Torres.

 

Its funny that people here think such formation work for us JUST because it looks better on paper. Everything is hypothesis and people ALL ASSUME IT WORKS. IT MAY OR MAY NOT, but what is the alternative if we dont have a decent starting striker? Winning teams (including our biggest rivals in Spain(they have Great strikers like Llorente, Torres and Negrado) and Italy all have 2 other tactics in the pocket)

This is not how football works. If we just wanna play all our better players on the pitch, and make in looks good on paper, we shouldnt even play our left back or any center backs of ours other than Hummels.

I remember watching Kehdira, Kroos, Goetze and Ozil kept passing it to each other for 79 minutes in their own little game with no movement. And that was the Austria-Germany game if u guys have short term memories; I also remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********ing shoot on target boys!!!!"

Its Tiki Taka Football

I emphasize the importance of "first-touch finishing". Among Reus, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Oezil, Goetze and Kroos, i wonder who is better at off-the-ball movement within the penalty box. Muller is the best, but can he win in a position battle inside the box and make first-touch finishing/headers? Big question mark there, and who else can?

Its not like we have a Lionel Messi in the roster. And how does it hurt to have more weapons(first-touch finishing, aerial threats) in our offensive arsenal?

Just simply passing from one corner to another corner, keeping possession but no one executes......is it really a good thing?

Many question marks there

 

Kirsten, nobody is saying that we won't have an alternative. Nobody is saying to not take Mario Gomez and Klose or perhaps Kiessling to the WC in 2014. They are simply preferring a strikerless approach to what we have now. If it doesn't work, we bring on a striker. That is your alternative.

 

Its funny that people here think such formation work for us JUST because it looks better on paper. Everything is hypothesis and people ALL ASSUME IT WORKS. IT MAY OR MAY NOT, but what is the alternative if we dont have a decent starting striker? Winning teams (including our biggest rivals in Spain(they have Great strikers like Llorente, Torres and Negrado) and Italy all have 2 other tactics in the pocket)

This is not how football works. If we just wanna play all our better players on the pitch, and make in looks good on paper, we shouldnt even play our left back or any center backs of ours other than Hummels.

I remember watching Kehdira, Kroos, Goetze and Ozil kept passing it to each other for 79 minutes in their own little game with no movement. And that was the Austria-Germany game if u guys have short term memories; I also remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********ing shoot on target boys!!!!"

Its Tiki Taka Football

I emphasize the importance of "first-touch finishing". Among Reus, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Oezil, Goetze and Kroos, i wonder who is better at off-the-ball movement within the penalty box. Muller is the best, but can he win in a position battle inside the box and make first-touch finishing/headers? Big question mark there, and who else can?

Its not like we have a Lionel Messi in the roster. And how does it hurt to have more weapons(first-touch finishing, aerial threats) in our offensive arsenal?

Just simply passing from one corner to another corner, keeping possession but no one executes......is it really a good thing?

Many question marks there

 

I just had Déjà vu...

 

Dr. Faust is lazy and Kirsten has all sorts of blogs on this shit.

 

Dr. Faust loves to make jokes ..... that's why he made the same post as Kirsten while Kirsten ..... well he is a hopeless case. He always repeats the same thing over and over and over again. You can look at his posts over the years. I dont know if he trolls intentionally or not.

 

I'm not going to expect a comprehensive retort from you but for the sake of discussion...

The idea is to play our best players AND find a suitable formation to play them in. Unfortunately our 4-2-3-1 doesn't suit them nor is it the base for a philosophy that would also suit them.

Thus; transition.

If you think we are playing Tiki Taka you're wrong. We are far from it. We are trying bits and pieces of Bayern's negative retention game, one that doesn't consider carefully crafted and flexible transitions and build ups. We keep the ball so the opponent won't have it, that's it. We still attack very predictably

What we're also seeing is a struggle of identities. Our younger more technical players yearn to play a more sophisticated and liberating formation but seem stuck in what Löw currently presents them.

You're also really discrediting what you deem Tiki-Taka by assessing its importance as Messi. Spain doesn't have him and they made the system work perfectly.

One touch finishing is not the anti-thesis of possession football.

 

Actually I'd say Kirsten is lazy and Dr Faust is simply an awesome dude.

 

True, true..

 

Holy crap, I just realized I had a conversation with an android. Whoa.

 

Anyway, 4-6-0 will struggle. thats also another hypothesis, u cant prove me wrong either.

U cant play all our "better players" (a very subjective topic, i thought Kiessling is the best player in Bundesliga so far this season? No?) on the pitch, and make in looks good on paper. If thats the case, we shouldnt even play our left back or any center backs of ours other than Hummels.
I think the long term solution is to find a successor of Klose, a well-rounded clincial finisher. 4-6-0 is a short term solution, which i doubt Loew will implement if either of Mario Gomez or Klose is healthy.

4-6-0 is only a cover-up of our scarce with quality strikers. but u still have to sort it out eventually. I m impressed with the development of Nils Petersen, Lasogga and Philipp Hofmann so far in their early career of professional football. So we'll see

 

And The Spain team is made up of players from Real Madrid and Barcelona( or their youth academies) the team chemistry is built since the age of 6/7

It works for them doesn't mean it will automatically translate to the DFB. Personnel and team chemistry is completely different.

Now, U can't just make a team of 11 of ur best players. If that's the case, we shouldn't even play out left back and one of our center backs. I don't buy it just because someone says it is a perfect formation for us because we can play Khedira, Schweini, Kroos, Oezil, Muller and Goetze at the same time.

I just hope there will be a breakout from one of our younger strikers so that u guys can STFU about this striker less formation which Loew will not implement when Klose/Gomez is around anyway. Nils Petersen is showing gns that he ce a capable striker in the Bundesliga

What If 4-6-0 doesn't work? Whats the alternative?

I m actually a pro 3-5-2, from what I saw from Italy during Euro 2012. It works very well in counter attack and against 4-5-1

 

Looks like the Turing test has been passed!

 

It's traditionalists who show the greatest fear of change - a departure from the known. In this case, the absence of a striker cuts deep into their subconscious and shatters their world of familiarity.

 

HA! James Cameron was right!

 

If the 4-3-3-0 didn't fit our talent I wouldn't be for it, but it works perfectly for our talent because it puts all of Ozil, Reus, Mueller, Kroos, Khedira and Schweini in their best positions. Ozil's freed up to drift around, link up with everybody and use his genius for passing to play people through. Reus and Mueller get to run into vacated central areas and use their quick instincts and shooting to pop in goals. Kroos is at his best coming forward from the tip of a midfield trio play people through or launch one of his great long range shots. Schweini gets to sit deep n spray the ball around with a physical runner next to him and a clever lieutenant ahead of him. Everybody does what they do best, that's why the formation makes sense.