German National Team News & Discussion Thread - EURO 2012 & Beyond [R] II

Hendrik...? What happened? Came back from a new year's eve party early and can't sleep so you decided to do some clean-up on BS instead?

No worries we will have ridiculous amount of talent, we will be big favorites and we will destroy teams all the way to the semis...

Then loew will take over from there and screw it up

He'll shit his pants as usual and over smart himself.....

I'll get debate started with this; we need a strikerless formation.

While I agree that we should develop one, in fact I've posted a few different versions in the previous thread, I still would prefer we start Klose if he's healthy by the time we get to Rio.

As for Jogi, I'm not sure if this is because I know we fans have no choice but to give him one more chance, but maybe he's learned that adjusting to limit your opponents strengths doesn't require conceding your own.

It doesnt mean we can continue this scarce wtih strikers. Clubs/DFB still needa find a better way to develop the German strikers in order to give us more options

Now, we are forced to play a strikerless formation ONLY because we dont have a decent striker. But what happen if the strikerless formation doesnt work (afterall, we're not Barcelona)???? Whats the alternative?



I also see many weaknesses in a strikeless formation, so for the DFB, it may not be as good as some of u may have thought. Against Holland, Loew played a 4-6-0, but it eneded up as a failure and i think not being direct, no aerial threat, circuitous and too soft are some of the obvious problems with a 4-6-0 with the players we have.

Whether we go for a strikerless formation or not, Loew needs to decide quickly on either route, because either way, and especially if we're going to for no strikers, we're going to need a lot of practice with the system. For Spain, it works so well because they've got a huge bunch of world class midfielders. Xavi getting man-marked? Let Alonso take over. Alonso not on form? Iniesta to the rescue. We have just Schweinsteiger and perhaps Kroos, and that just doesn't match up to the standard, so we need to fine tune the system to work with our players, and that needs to start now, if ever.

false 9 is a stupid idea, when u are full of skillful, "soft" midfielders and no one can execute. Spain have more scoring options, but we dont

Oezil isnt scoring, Mueller just stays on the flank, Goeze wont shoot unless he dribbles pass all defenders

U need someone who can execute. All this short passes n one-two, is glamorous. but without someone who plays hard, knows how to excute, can provide aerial threat n allrounded game, our offense will be very predictable n one-dimensional.

"I remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********in shoot on target boys"

Tiki Taka with all its foreplay and no ********ing will kill me off. I do not think German fans will like this.

Kehdira, Kroos, Goetze and Ozil kept passing it to each other on 79 minutes in their own little game with no movement. Who wants to watch this crap?

I don't like our tiki taka style

I remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********ing shoot on target boys!!!!"

Tiki Taka with all its foreplay and no ********ing will kill me off. I do not think German fans will like this

I m not even sure if thats good for the team and the players. 4-6-0 has its pros and CONS. Its not as perfect as everyone here wants it to be. We played a strikeless formation against holland and i think that experiment was failure

It applies to Barcelona, but it doesnt mean we have the same personnel n team chemistry(which they've developed since the age of 7/8).

And a short term solution in 4-6-0, doesnt mean we can continue this scarce wtih strikers. Clubs/DFB still needa find a better way to develop the German strikers in order to give us more options

Now, we are forced to play a strikerless formation ONLY because we dont have a decent striker. But what happen if the strikerless formation doesnt work (afterall, we're not Barcelona)???? Whats the alternative?

U still need quality strikers in the roster. Thats the fact, and we cant lie to ourselves.

A more realistic solution for the long term is to give more chances to young strikers. That opens up all possibilities

Im VERY VERY SURPRISED that ALL people here expected 4-6-0 works for us. What if it doesnt? Without striker, can we play 4-5-1 or even 3-5-2 which Italy played and worked very well against 4-5-1 during 2012 Euro? How many team can win all the way with just one formation?

And our junior NTs needa play 4-6-0 too? Because i remember Loew and the assistant coach said youth NTs should play the same system as the senior's

I m very concerned as one-striker formation is actually an obstacle to young German strikers' development, as teams prefer foreign strikers or strikers with more expereince. Now without striker?

Coming through, i see some serious potential in Ducksch, Yesil, Fullkrug, Philip Hofmann, Davie Selke, Timo Werner and co. Hope one of them will breakout and we'll keep options opened.

No it doesnt play to our strength

It looks better on paper. Thats it. It may not work because there are some serious problem with 4-6-0 if we dont have the personnel (do we have a prolific false 9 like Messi?) or team chemistry

Everything is hypothetical, it looks better on paper then people all say "let's go for 4-6-0"! Please, u need someone to execute. Oezil, Goetze, Kehdria, Kroos and Schweinsteiger?

Without a striker, 4-6-0 all the way? Any team can win all the way without any formation alternative?

We are playing Tiki Taka enough, and now even without a striker?

Many question marks there

Kehdira, Kroos, Goetze and Ozil kept passing it to each other on 79 minutes in their own little game with no movement. Who wants to watch this crap?

I remember watching Müller, Kroos and Khedira sweeping the ball around the box from one corner to the other, and all I was thinking was "Almer isn´t that good, just ********ing shoot on target boys!!!!"

Tiki Taka with all its foreplay and no ********ing will kill me off. I do not think German fans will like this

First, this debate would be over if we had a quality young striker that fits the system. Since we don't, it isn't. Also the Netherlands friendly was a tainted experiment if I ever saw one. I have to disagree with Kirsten's statement about not having finishers who can "execute", and we certainly have more of them than freaking Spain post-Villa. We have Reus and Schürrle, who are both very direct, to-the-point wingers that like to shoot, especially Schürrle. Kroos is not afraid to take shots from distance and is extraordinarily potent at it. We've even started to see Özil become more direct, as shown by the fact he has almost as many goals for the first half of this season as he did the whole of last season; 11 to 13. Götze is beginning to come into his own as well, though. I absolutely concur a half-decent prospect would be great, but we have to work with the options put to us, and that's Gomez vs Strikerless, with Klose fading out. Although didn't Schürrle play as a pure forward for Mainz? Anyways, Germany is not playing tiki-taka, Kirsten, I'm not certain where you get that impression. Or where you get the impression the German offence is ineffective; 4 goals against Sweden, another 4 against Greece, which had limited everyone up until that point to 0-1 goals, etc.

Wait, as i said, everything is hypothetical. 4-6-0, with our personnel(clinical enough?) n team chemistry( Spanish from Barcelona have played together everyday at the same club since a very young age) , what are the pros and cons?

U gotta be honest to urself. Its it all that great, no weakness?

Everything is hypothetical, it looks better on paper then people all say "let's go for 4-6-0"! Please, u need someone to execute. Oezil, Goetze, Kehdria, Kroos and Schweinsteiger?

Without a striker, 4-6-0 all the way? Any team can win all the way without any formation alternative?

We are playing Tiki Taka enough, and now even without a striker?

U gotta answer some of the questions. I still think 4-6-0 is JUST A LAST RESORT AS WE DONT HAVE A DECENT STARTING STRKER

Too much TV games guys,

In FIFA 2013, maybe i'll play all the midfielders as they have higher rating n bench Gomez just becuase his overall rating is not over 80, where the others are.

But in real football, it doesnt work this way. 4-6-0 doesnt automatically mean its good for our team just becoz its good on paper and we can play Goetze, Kroos, Reus, Mueller, Khedira nad Schweinsteiger at the same time. It has its pros and cons and it may or may not work for us.

SO i think the best solution is to develop young strikers n give us more options.

If a the strikerless formation doesnt work as well as a 4-5-1 or a 3-5-2 even (Italy played 3-5-2 during Euro 2012 and was a success imo), u gotta put Mario Gomez or even Kiessling there.

If 4-6-0 doesnt work, whats the alternative when we have no decent starting striker? 4-6-0 without any second formation alternative? Will that be predictable too?

I agree Schurrle can finish, but neither Schuerrle nor Reus is good at "first-touch finishing" and is not an aerial threat at all.

Some may argue, "the current German system do not need aerial threat at all" .......But if u want a more complete offensive game, we needa have one/two aerial threat out there to make our attack less predictable and give us more dimensions.

I'm going to go through your questions one by one.

It has serious weakness, but, like I said, you got to work with what you have. If our players are unable to crack the team in front of them, the players become stagnant, running around like headless chickens. I still believe it is our best option ATM.

I've already answered the "execute" question. Reus/Schürrle are very direct wingers ready to execute and shoot at a moment's notice, Kroos is not shy to take a shot, and Götze/Özil are beginning to show measurable improvement.

Spain have won multiple trophies with the exact same playing style they played for four years. And plus we have Klose and Gomez and another prospect likely who can come off the bench and play alternatively.

Again, we are not playing Tiki-Taka. Don't understand where that's coming from, exactly, to be honest.

I never argued that a strikerless formation would be automatically good, but I do believe it needs a better shot than a pointless friendly against the Netherlands in which suddenly everyone was conveniently "injured", and the rest were extraordinarily unmotivated.

That's a good long-term solution for after the World Cup 2014, but that ain't helping us at the moment. Unless you believe that Fullkrug, Ducksch, etc. have a refined enough game for the international stage, which I doubt you believe.

All I am arguing for is at least a genuine chance, if they continue to turn up like the Netherlands, then we'll be able to fall back on Gomez or Klose or Kießling.

The alternative is Gomez or Klose or perhaps Kießling. We have other options to explore if this doesn't work.

I suppose you are correct on your last two points, but aerial ability is ultimately expendable if the other factors work well. Plus, we still have solid options on the bench in Klose or Gomez if Loew feels the need to inject that in. But for all Gemany's crosses against Italy, we were left with not even a semi-dangerous header, which leads me to believe Germany doesn't know how to utilize aerial ability even when we have it.

Also, Gomez is wicked dangerous on FIFA 13, what're you talking about?

The German team has one of the finest strikers since decades, the strikerless formation is a more or less a wet dream of some of you, that isn't executed well by a single team except Barcelona who may be able to play any formation and win games.

Quote from the other thread:

The whole point of switching to the strikerless formation is to accommodate our best players in a harmonious lineup. The whole point of my formation is that it works best for everyone, Kroos comes forward from the tip of a midfield trio, Ozil gets to drift around with as little defensive responsibilities to suck him back into position as possible. Mueller and Reus get to run into central areas that aren't crammed because of Ozil's movement. Schweini gets to have a great midfield around him with Khedira providing physicality and vertical running and Kroos to sit further forward and be his lieutenant, letting Schweini just focus on spraying the ball around and only moving forward when the situation is perfect for it.

In theory it should highlight the strengths of our most talented 11. Now the question is if they can really learn it and master it by the next world cup, which I think they can, but I'd still want Klose along for the ride in case they can't.

Too much TV games guys,

In FIFA 2013, maybe i'll play all the midfielders as they have higher rating n bench Gomez just becuase his overall rating is not over 80, where the others are.

But in real football, it doesnt work this way. 4-6-0 doesnt automatically mean its good for our team just becoz its good on paper and we can play Goetze, Kroos, Reus, Mueller, Khedira nad Schweinsteiger at the same time. It has its pros and cons and it may or may not work for us.

SO i think the best solution is to develop young strikers n give us more options.

If a the strikerless formation doesnt work as well as a 4-5-1 or a 3-5-2 even (Italy played 3-5-2 during Euro 2012 and was a success imo), u gotta put Mario Gomez or even Kiessling there.

If 4-6-0 doesnt work, whats the alternative when we have no decent starting striker? 4-6-0 without any second formation alternative? Will that be predictable too?

I agree Schurrle can finish, but neither Schuerrle, Goetze nor Reus is good at "first-touch finishing" and is not an aerial threat at all.

Some may argue, "the current German system do not need aerial threat at all" .......But if u want a more complete offensive game, we needa have one/two aerial threat out there to make our attack less predictable and give us more dimensions.

Everything is hypothetical, it may look fine on paper, but real life football doesn't work that way. People here completely forget the weaknesses of a 4-6-0 formation and just highlighting the advantages/strengths.

Who is able to execute? Do we have a midfielder who is a good "first-touch finisher"? Aerial threat which give us a different dimension in our offense? Too indirect and circuitous? Do we have the personnel and team chemistry of Barcelona?

We are already playing rather indirect and circuitous, tiki taka type of football. Tiki taka With all this foreplay n no actual ********ing actually pisses me off! We often see Khedira, Oezil, Podolski and Etc passing to each other for 79 minutes in their own little game, hate to see this.

The best solution is to Find a successor of Klose. Mario Gomez, Kiessling or even Nils Petersen/Polter/Lasogga/Yesil/Fullkrug/Ducksch needs more chances.

Trust me, to win it all, we need an alternative other than a strikerless formation.

''We'' ? It is just the troll Kirsten.

I thought in the first half there were plenty of good moments with that strikerless formation. IN the second half, the players showed absolutely no desire to play football. They were just passing the ball sideways and backwards.