I am not saying who was better ... Nilton Santos, Maldini, etc ... but Roque Junior disproves any argument based on WC titles.
No. Who said was FIFA. Yeah, But Alexandre Polga, Roque Júnior etc were incidental figures in one Cup. Nilton Santos was an exponential one in 4.
Re: garrincha vs. ronaldo vs. zico - who was the second brazilian best ever ? c'mon thats not even worth asking,shouldnt even be a question certainly not in the real world and not even on the bloody internet........the little bird,by light years some of dagoods early posts regards mane in 58 vs r9 in 94 had me literally laughing, some absolute nonsense there.typical of internet forums but still funny
While I do believe Ronaldo was the better player, Zidane got the better of him when it mattered. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvZwirDVouI&feature=related"]YouTube- Zidane vs Brazil - WC 06 QF[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdD5hehCwJo&feature=related"]YouTube- FINALE WORLD CUP 1998 FRANCE - BRAZIL 3-0[/ame] Ronaldo- 0 goals 0 assists Zidane- 2 goals 1 assist
France had a decent keeper, superb defense, and midfield in 98 pretty much the same in 06 (better midfield and offense) and Brazil had well RONALDO in 98 and well RONALDO in 06 all by himself One man cannot defeat 11 warriors alone, not unless you' re Dagoods or Bruce Lee of course!
It was no David vs Goliath. Nor Usa vs Brazil in the 2009 CC. Where there was a massive difference in talent on the field or even on the bench to one side. Defending set pieces were the weakness of Brazil against France.
Zidane was suspension two matches by FIFA in 1998 world cup ,and did nothing except finals，ronaldo was FIFA best player of 1998 WORLD CUP。And if not because france worker to put in poison to ronaldo,I think the tragedy didin't happen,and if that,zidane was nothing,though zidane scored two goals,FIFA still forecast ronaldo will win FIFA World Player in 1998,but the result...you know I think that ronaldo>zico>garrincha>platini>zidane
You have proof or a link for your claim about a French worker poisoning Ronaldo? Look at my post. I agree with you about Ronaldo being the better player. Does it change the fact the two times they faced each other in the World Cup that Zidane and France is 2-0? Or he had two goals and one assist vs Brazil? Ronaldo and Brazil 0-2? Ronaldo had 0 goals or assists?
well ronaldo in 06 and all by himself??? man... stop lying to yourself... FatNaldo was out of shape and had poor physical conditions... why is it so hard to admit it? The only guys that were taking the WC06 seriously were zé roberto and kaka... France was better because at the end zidane was there to make a difference with his teammates and win decision games while ronaldo was crap against france both times (WC98 and WC 06). The only WC that Fatnaldo really made a difference was in WC02 with great support by guys like Rivaldo(great wc), Ronaldinho(good wc) and Marcos(good wc). i think it's pretty useless to discuss ideas and arguments with guys that think that ronaldo is a god without flaws... he really is a great player, but perfect i'm sure he is not...
Yes,ronaldinho and kaka are best player of last decade for me,ronaldinho was first half,and kaka was 2006-2010,but they did nothing in 2006 WC.In 2006 WC:Ronaldo>Adriano>Kaka>Ronaldinho,about ronaldinho in 2006 was worst "Brazil 10" in WC ever,some great "10" in World cup,Since 1960s,the first "10" in World cup was Pele(58-70 WC),after the king pele was Roberto Rivellino（70-78 WC),after him was Zico（78-86 WC),Paul Silas (90 WC),Rai (94 WC),Rivado (98-02 WC),Ronaldinho( 02-06 WC) And in 2006 WC ronaldinho become only one "BRAZIL 10" never scored one goal in one WORLD CUP in history. So kaka or ronaldinho all disappointment in 2006 WC，but kaka was great in Brazil vs Croatia and Ghana,And 60s brazil belong to pele,70s belong to Rivellino,80s belong to zico ,90s belong to ronaldo and romario,last decade the 00s belong to ronaldo and rivaldo,kaka will prove himself in 2010 WC,he was new "brazil 10",I think kaka must playing good if brazil team want won more games in June,or ronaldo come back prove
I must be seriously bored to respond to this nonsense... but anyways ... Silas didn't score a goal in '90 and Zico didn't score one in '86 (he came in as a sub since he was injured) so you're claim about Ronaldinho is completely false. Rai was benched in 94 after the 2nd or 3rd match due to poor performance. This just proves that your only goal is to come here and fill this forum with garbage.
Since we're dealing with scratched records ... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv7tsslgE3Y"]YouTube- Funk Do Ronaldo -( Pânico na TV )- DJ Doval - ORIGINAL ®[/ame]
Re: Nope, not by light years. In terms of ability, they are all quite close. Zico was great but he loses out because he repeatedly failed at the highest stages. Ronaldo specifically succeeded in these situations. And, so did Garrincha. But to say that garrincha wins this by light years is foolish. And, what is more foolish is the suggestion that Leonidas was better than Ronaldo. Based on what? Where is the evidence? If we actually only look at the video evidence available in the public domain (and also considering the fact that players now have less time on the ball than Garrincha did), then Ronaldo is >>Zico>>>>>Garrincha.
yes by light years ask every single writer,commentataor or ex player/manager about garrincha and every one of them puts him way behond ronaldo......wether its tostao,milton neves,mario zagallo in brazil enrique macaya marques in argentina or franco rossi darwin pastorin in italy or brian glanville,jeff powell in the uk i could go on and on.....one thing these guys all have in common is they saw the whole careers of these players not just a handful of highlight videos and are clearly able to judge them correctly unlike like young lads on a internet site.as for films of these players there are literally thousands of times the amount of film of ronaldo playing as leonidas garrincha etc as those players careers preceded the era of mass television.garrincha for example before 1962 you will probabaly only find a couple clips of him playing against fluminenese in 1957 and highlights of 3 of his 4 games at the 1958 world cup thats not much film of his first 9 YEARS playing football is it and there is hardly any film of leonidas left.so youtube video experts opinions are worthless besides those who actually saw the guys play .cheers
In fairness to Ronaldo, most old timers will always put older players ahead of newer ones. Like how Eric Batty regarded Pele as only the third best ever (after Di Stefano and Puskas) and then Maradona and Cruyff nowhere compared to those 3.
These guys are most likely biased (subjective). Like, Glanville would wax lyrical about Julinho as if he was the best winger ever. Do you have any evidence that these writers have said Garrincha is light years ahead of Ronaldo (especially a fit Ronaldo playing at his best)? I'm sure those claiming Leonidas was better than Ronaldo are wayyyy biased. They fail to account for the fact that football have gotten harder because there's simply much less time available on the ball nowadays (at least at the highest level). Whatever little video evidence exists suggests that Leonidas nearly always had an open field in front of him to run into. It was much easier for him to play. This is also somewhat true for Garrincha but not for Zico and Ronaldo. They hardly had any time on the ball and still created wonders with the quickness of their thought and the dexterity of their feet.
You cannot just use the argument that "there is less time available now" to dismiss the old time great players. Having more time or space didn't make the game any easier in relative terms, as every player who was playing at the time had the same amount of time and space as everybody else, and yet players like Leonidas or Garrincha or Pele were dominant and clearly stood out head and shoulders above the rest. If the game was so easy back the, as you claim it was, then a lot more players would have been able to do what Garrincha was able to do, and yet he is remembered as doing things with the ball that nobody's been able to replicate, because of his unique characteristics.
Re: By light-years. Again we have to repeat. Garrincha faced much tougher opposition. Not necessarily physically but…technically. Garrincha had more time on the ball, yes, but it was because defenders then knew how to recuperate a ball without fouling; they'd let players evolve because they were sure they'd easily disarm them in a legal way: nowadays defenders only know how to tackle. That's how in 90% of the times balls were recuperated: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_opvDS9nSew"]YouTube- Nilton Santos ajuda Seleção Brasileira contra Inglaterra na Copa de 58[/ame] And that's how it went in the 00's: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQtaaTpFDuQ"]YouTube- Materazzi best 5 fouls (inter milan) killer[/ame] That didn't mean ‘less difficulties’ to Garrincha though. On the contrary: if he weren't Garrincha opponents would end with his race – just by playing ball. Sure there is a big difference btw him & Ronaldo: while small Garrincha ran smoothly among very skillful defenders Ronaldo bulldozed his way through awkward butchers. Which is way easier: he just had to use his privileged corporal mass in order to intimidate them - allying to that a good tad of Brazilian technique too of course. And, believe me, it's way easier dribbling & sneaking balls between troglodytes legs that finding one's way through people like Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Djalma Santos, Bellini, Altair, Trappatoni, Nestor Rossi, Charlton etc etc As I said here, Ronaldo's 'duck steps' although efficient nowadays would pull quite an amount of giggling in the 60's. Zico failed? He captained the best club of the world in the 80's, was 4 times Brazilian champion, 1 Libertadores, 1 Intercontinental Cup with a devastating final victory over the best team of Liverpool ever, was the real best scorer of Serie A (debunking Platini in the goal average). In 1982 he & the whole team suffered that fatality against Italy & in 1986 he played severely injured - and that's 'failing at the highest stages'? You gotta be kidding... Sorry, but 'evidence' is not just 'films or VTs' (resources that only started being efficiently used very recently) and which - de per se - don’t speak by themselves: they also need to be adequately interpreted and analyzed. Evidence is also experts testimonies, stats, evaluation of world impact of a player on a determinate epoch (considering the degree of evolution of the media of that epoch of course), tactical & technical contribution of that player to the game, level of football played in their respective times etc etc. And in all those points better be sure Leônidas has been seen as vastly superior to Ronaldo by the critics. In Brazil – which is the country where still reside the experts who saw both playing, there is no doubt at all – Leônidas makes all Brazil All-Time 11s. No mention to Ronaldo.