garrincha vs. ronaldo vs. zico - who was the second brazilian best ever ?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by darek27, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. khan096

    khan096 New Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Club:
    Alianza FC
    Who was the player of the decade?
    Its first half was illuminated by, among others, FIFA World Player of the Year recipients Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, while Fabio Cannavaro, Kaka, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi seized the prestigious award thereafter. The likes of Gianluigi Buffon, Iker Casillas, Xavi, Pavel Nedved, Steven Gerrard, Andriy Shevchenko and Samuel Eto’o also excelled over the course of the past ten years.
    http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/news/newsid=1159040.html

    FIFA ask you that who was best of decade,ronaldo still was most popular ,though his peak not in the decade.

    Zidane is overestimated at this moment,but like zidane and ronaldo are good in two decades:90s and 00s,and include figo
     
  2. khan096

    khan096 New Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Club:
    Alianza FC
    http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/awards/gala/news/newsid=85741.html
    1996 and 1997, Ronaldo
    The "Fenomeno" has been collecting plaudits, trophies and goals since the mid-90's. Back home in Brazil, they are quick to remind you that Ronaldo was only 17 when he picked up his first FIFA World Cup winner's medal at USA 94 - the same age as a young prodigy named Pele back in 1958. For the average superstitious Brazilian fan this was an obvious sign of things to come, and Ronaldo has certainly continued to deliver on his early promise. His first FIFA Player of the Year award came in 1996 when he had just turned 20, and to this day he is the youngest player to have won the trophy. He is also the only player to have won the award two years running. His 1996 crown came at the end of a season at Barcelona that resembled something of a footballing fairy tale. Following in the footsteps of Romario, he had been transferred to the Catalan club from PSV Eindhoven after two seasons at the Dutch club, where he scored 42 goals.
    That one season at Barça saw him take the football world by storm. The socios still talk of a mesmerising run against Compostela, rounded off with a brilliant finish that left the keeper for dead. He hit 34 goals that year, carrying off the European Golden Boot in the process. In 1997, he became the youngest-ever European Footballer of the Year, and FIFA Player of the Year for a second time. Author Manuel Vasquez Montalban described him as "an exceptionally powerful athlete, with the constitution of a boxer and the feet of Fred Astaire". Following his transfer to Inter Milan, though, he suffered two career-threatening knee injuries that kept him out of the game for nearly two years. But Ronaldo is also made of resolute stuff, and he burst back into the spotlight in the most spectacular fashion possible in Korea and Japan. His eight goals in Asia represent the highest goal-tally in a FIFA World Cup since 1970.
     
  3. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cafu as their first choice RB?? wow, that's just crazy!!
    Djalma Santos, C.A. Torres, Leandro and Jorginho were all better than Cafu.
    Well, Djalma Santos and C.A. Torres i'm pretty sure. The other 2 are pretty debatable.
    That's just like people do with FatRonaldo! Many people select him to the first squad of all time Brazil. Having no respect for the great history of brazilian strikers like Friedenreich, Leônidas da Silva, Ademir de Menezes, Reinaldo (he was pure class playing for Atletico-MG), Careca and Romário!
    lol... just joking, i know that Dagoods is a hardcore fan of FatRonaldo... :D
    I seriously prefer Romário and Reinaldo maybe because they were more classy players with more resources and attributes to score goals. Of course they (Romario and Reinaldo) never had the speed and physical strength that Ronaldo had at the peak of his career. But that's just my personal taste like everyone has its own. ;)

    About Cafu, he didn't become a CB just because his awareness to defensive attributes like marking, covering, stealing balls and area positioning never really was his strongest point. His strongest attributes were his speed, excellent physical condition and a good notion to pass the ball. I think he would be a great second DM or "volante" here in brazil because he could give good starts to offensive plays and the level of soccer played here is really low in the moment. Guys like Thuram, Zanetti and Daniel Alves were and are all more complete than Cafu. For my palestra, Cafu only had a great Paulistão 1996 and that was all, playing here from 1995 to 1997. Francisco Arce had better permances for my palmeiras than Cafu.

    Nilton Santos vs R. Carlos? N. Santos all the way to me too!!!
    And one more thing, Junior (Leovegildo Lins da Gama Júnior ) was also vastly superior to R. Carlos. Just ask to any brazilian that really knows about soccer. Junior had better skills, better pass, great quality to create plays and far far superior technique. At the end of his career, Junior was pure class playing as a midfielder for Flamengo, a true "Maestro" to Flamengo's conquering of the Brasileirão 1992.
    The only things that R. Carlos is better than Junior are shot power, quality free-kick and a bigger number of international titles, and that's all!
    R. Carlos is great and probably the best LB that played for my Palmeiras, but he is not close to legends like Nilton Santos and Junior.
     
  4. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    :D Tirou daqui, mano.

    The three first were much, much better.

    In my opinion only Jorginho x Cafu are debatable.

    There were also WC unsuccesful Paulo Henrique (1966) & Toninho Baiano (1978) who would give Cafu a good fight too.

    A special mention to Josimar in 1986.
    I had the opportunity to express the same opinion in this Forum.

    The 'problem' with those players (exception to Careca/Romário) is that 'they didn't play in Europe' :rolleyes: ...
    I subscribe!...

    Ronaldo is even 'awkward' compared to Reinaldo & Romário.

    Ademir de Menezes is a close call too: his style was even similar to Ronaldo's.

    Now Leônidas da Silva is simply hors concours.

    Leônidas - with Pelé & Garrincha - is the best Brz fw/player ever.
    One Cafu's very positive point though was his EXTREME REGULARITY (based on his stamina & tranquility) over a long period of time (1996 to 2006) - an undismissable quality for a defender (specially a defender that has the responsability of taking care of his backyard and relentlessly support the attack - tasks that he performed as a clockwork during those 10 years).

    Regularity which only Djalma Santos maybe would match.;)

    Class wise - Djalma all the way (of course!).
    I was behind Botafogo's goal in 1992 when Flamengo won 3 x 0 & then in the 2nd game when Fla confirmed the title: Junior's 1st goal in the 1st game & his free kick in the 2nd were a thing of beauty!...
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byk7G_pfbVw"]YouTube- Brasileirão 1992 - Flamengo 3 x 0 Botafogo[/ame][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPc1uM0GZf8"]YouTube- Gols Marcantes com a narração de José Carlos Araujo, o "GAROTINHO" (Júnior 1992 e Petkovic 2001)[/ame]
    As we could deprehend from one of the videos up there, Junior's free-kicks from short/medium distance were much better.

    R. Carlos was mainly a long-range shooter (like Branco who deserves a very honorable mention also).
    I should add Marinho Chagas too (1974) as a much more complete & classier left-back than R. Carlos, besides being a great free-kick shooter also.
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Silvio Marzolini was very skillful joining the attack -although he picked his spots more than the Brazilians, and didn't quite have the speed of Roberto Carlos - and he was every bit as solid as Maldini defensively.
     
  6. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Naucalpan Estado de Mex
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Garrincha

    close thread
     
  7. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's something I can agree with. Cafu was a player that always surpassed expectations given his natural ability. Nobody imagined he could go so far. His main attribute, as you mentioned, was his consistency, longevity, and physical conditioning. But for me Jorginho was better technically and on defense. And his crosses were much more accurate than Cafu's. Jorginho was class. Too bad he got injured in the final in 94.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Garrincha never was a go to guy? Please.

    Lets rewind back to the 1958 final. Sweden, the home team, scored an early goal and things looked complicated for the visiting Brazilians.

    Legendary Brazilian captain Didi did something similar to what Uruguay's Obdulio Varela had done in 1950. He went into the goal, picked up the ball, and walked straight into the central circle with the ball in his hand. The only difference is that unlike Varela, he didn't hold the ball for too long. He wanted to get the match restarted right away.

    Afterwards Didi said, "All I was thinking at that moment was, I got to get the ball to Garrincha as soon as I can".
     
  9. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The only one who threatens him in the attack is Leônidas.

    Among the mids, Didi, Zizinho & Tostão are very, very close too.

    Among the defenders Gilmar, D. Santos, C. Alberto, D. da Guia, N. Santos.

    Those are the suns around which revolve the planets.

    Zico is one of those planets.

    Most planets have satellites.

    Ronaldo is one of the most brilliant & Dinho is a big comet.;)
     
  10. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    Damn right, he wasn't the go to guy (main star of the team).
    58 - Didi was the face of Brazilian football but Pele stole the show.
    62 - Pele entered the tournament as the biggest start in the world but Garrincha became the protagonist of this WC after Pele got injured.
    66 - Once again Pele...

    94 - Romario and Baggio (R9 waiting his turn :D)
    98 - RONALDO
    02 - RONALDO
    06 - Ronaldinho but he failed miserably and R9 became the protagonist for Brazil
     
  11. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think Didi knew more about the 58 team than you do.
     
  12. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    Really? Well I certainly hope so; they were teammates after all. WOW, your GPA must be a 5.0! Bottom line is: Garrincha never-eeeeeeeeeeeeever entered a WC tournament as football's brightest star. FACT! R9 on the other hand…;)
     
  13. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    After the first Swedish goal in 58 Didi went straight to Garrincha. The first 2 goals we scored were Garrincha assists from plays from the wing. He was a go-to guy. In 02 Rivaldo was as much a go-to guy as Ronaldo.
     
  14. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Ronaldo never played with Pele.
     
  15. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    Fact:D
     
  16. KyleP

    KyleP Member

    Jan 24, 2009
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Did you actually follow any of that World Cup. If so, you would have remembered that, despite scoring 3 goals, he was hideously unfit, played terribly, and was jeered and ridiculed by the Brazilian fans, press, public, and even their own president. If Brazil even had a protagonist at that World Cup it should be Zé Roberto.
     
  17. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The 2006 WC 'protagonist' was the best Brz left defender of all times :)rolleyes:) Roberto Carlos calmly tying up his shoes while Henry scored.

    And R9 - an old Zidane ridiculizing him - was more 'agonist' than 'protag' (fu*k his 15 goals, what Brz needed was the title).

    PS: Dagoods is transforming R9 more in his 'pro-Dag-onist' than ours...:p
     
  18. khan096

    khan096 New Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Club:
    Alianza FC
    ‘Warrior’ has returned,shaven head;meaning that the fenomeno is come back,if ronaldo can played in World Cup with brazil and won the South American Copa Libertadores with Corinthians,he will become the second best football player ever,not only the second brazilian best ever !Ronaldo had become second brazilian best ever in 1998 ,and now ,he doesn't need prove,because he had be best ever when 15 years ago,NOW ,we just pray:Dunga can change his idea,ronaldo and Corinthians good luck
    [​IMG]
     
  19. khan096

    khan096 New Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Club:
    Alianza FC
    But ronaldo was best brazilian player in 2006 WC:confused:,you know ronaldo and zidane all not in his peak,and ronaldo never close his peak since 1999,but Zidane's side,like henry,Vieira,Ribery and many all in their best, in Brazil,kaka,ronaldinho,adriano all in their peak,but they had vanished in 2006 WC,at least ronaldo scored 3 goals,won the FIFA WC Top scorer of all time,what did ronaldinho and kaka do?
     
  20. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Agreed that Zeberto was the best performer in Brazil team WC06.

    However, the FATfenomeno was close as #2 best performer for Brazil!

    1- Zeberto: 2 MoM + 1goal /5games
    2- Ronaldo: 1 MOM + 3go+1ass/5games

    Actually despite of his fatoverweigh he barely moved but still managed to have stat = Zidane as MVP of WC 3go+1ass/7games, and Crespo 3go+1ass as Silverboot of WC) very silly ... for such a poor WC in term of QUALITY individual!

    Now look at the 2 world best players (at that moment)
    - Kaka: 1MOM + 1go+1ass/5games
    - Ronaldinho: 1ass/5games
     
  21. khan096

    khan096 New Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Club:
    Alianza FC
    Great job!So I say 1950s-1970s belong to Pele (Three WCs),1980s-1990s belong to zico (great in 83 ,87 and 89 America Cup Soccer Championship,also good in 1982 WC)Ronaldo( won 94 WC,great in 1998 WC and 1997 and 1999 America Cup Soccer Championship,)romario (great in 1994 WC and 1989 and 1997 America Cup Soccer Championship
    BUT last 10 years ,there is no legend Brazil player
     
  22. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    He led the Brazilian attack didn't he? 3 goals and 1 assist (the same # of assist Dinho had) and he was Brazil's biggest threat against France FACT!!

    Not only wasn't he 100% fit but R9 was injured as well. He had surgery on his knee (bone spurs) right after the world cup! So, yes R9 did become the protagonist. He led Brazil in scoring and outshone the other offensive players Brazil had to offer!
     
  23. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    Otherwise he would have OUTSHONE Pele, probably!
    Who is to say he wouldn't have?
     
  24. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    lol...
    that was funny... :D
    ronaldo would never outshine pelé just like messi would never outshine maradona...
    man... Ronaldo is like a god to you... :D you are so blind that even ronaldo playing poorly and out of shape in wc2006 it is a fantastic and marvelous accomplishment...
     
  25. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cracking up here.:p

    Ronaldo with that 'duck step' of his didn't even outshine Zizou.

    But for Dagoods Pelé must have been like Dinho too (check the 'Is Dinho Dead?' thread)...all he did were circus tricks.:rolleyes:
     

Share This Page