And there is a list of not so great ones that made it ... Viola, Luizao, Roque Junior ... BTW ... Ademir da Guia was in WC74.
Yes, Zico faced tougher WC competition but Ronaldo faced tougher club competition. Zico's club career was impressive but I don't see how Ronaldo's club career is inferior to it? They both have won a lot of silverware, that's for sure. Ronaldo won everywhere he went, you name the league and he's won silverware! At a young age scoring a total of 52 goals in 54 games for Cruzeiro then he went to Europe (age 17) and in his very first season in Europe he scored 30 goals in 33 gamees. A total of 42 goals in 46 games for PSV. He landed in Barcelona "la liga de las estrellas" and he scored 47 goals in 49 games! On top of that, he ended up in Serie A. The toughest league in the world and faced legends such as: Thuram, Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, etc. and TRASHED them all! Ronaldo won a WC not being full fit and are we forgetting this man had gone through 2-3 knee surgeries already? Apart from all of those great achievements what really puts RONALDO above Zico and Garrincha at least for me is the following: HIS REAL MADRID YEARS! He outshone all the other so called “Galacticos” he out performed Figo, Raul, Zidane, and Beckham. O Fenomeno alongside a young Casillas carried RM for years.
Yes, but wasn't in 1970 when he was still in his prime! However, Ronaldo had put up good numbers and performances to earn his spot
But that's the concrete point, while Garrincha did, Ronaldo didn't... there's a difference in the comparison of their first World Cups favorable to Garrincha.
Hmmmmm ... as far as leagues go, Ronaldo only really won the Spanish league in 2003. The only other impressive silverware was the UEFA Cup with Inter. The rest were silly Super cups and the Spanish Cup.
Zico and zidane' s team > ronaldo's team,meaning that Flamengo> Cruzeiro ，Juventus > Inter milan,but ronaldo fenomeno>zico and zidane,ronaldo was best player of Serie A 97/98 season,not zidane,ronaldo was Player of 97-07 Serie A by Italy Football Association,not zidane
Ronaldo vs Garrincha at WC performance: Here not talking about real skills ( I rated Garrincha higher), but WC FACTS: Lets forget the WC94 as Ronaldo did not play! Ronaldo was 2 times main player to deilver WC98 final (so close if he was not sick in final game) and then WC2002. Garrincha was 1 time main player to deliver WC62, and just a among the team that won WC58 (Pele, Didi, 2 Santos and Gilmar were even higher) Ronaldo 1MVP WC98 + Bronze shoesWC98, GoldenShoes WC02 + SilverballWC02 + Bronzeshoes WC06 Garrincha: 1MVP WC62 + 1 goldenshoesWC62 -------------------------------------------------------------- Zico vs Ronaldo at WC: Let's forget who wins it! People talked about the fact that Zico's team facing more "tough" opponents than Ronaldo's team - that was TRUE! However, people forgot the fact Ronaldo's team (WC98, WC02) were worse in quality than Zico's team WC82 and 86. SO that's kinda EVEN OUT in a way. NOw to analyze further: I am not even mentioning the FACT: that Brazil82 team was among the best team ever in WC history in term of NAMes AND PLAYING smoothly and that's the ADVANTAGE for Zico to shine! He did ... somewhat (WC82) but still not enough in the last mile when the team needed him! Ronaldo's team 98 were among the so-so in style, in names ... YET, Ronaldo took them well (was key playmaker instead of Rivaldo) to teh final - and IF he was not sick? well . before that game almost 99% people predicted he would lead Brazil to the penta!
yes but Ronaldo also reached the next 2 WC Finals and he was the main reason as to why Brazil reached those two back to back WC Finals. R9 is a two time WC winner (just like Garrincha) and reached another WC Final (the one in 98) as the main protagonist! Garrincha was part of Brazil’s golden generation and played alongside legends of this game. Ronaldo had to carry Brazil on his shoulders in 98; his attacking partner was Bebeto (who was clearly over the hill) and a rising star in Rivaldo. The same can be said about the 2002 team. Ronaldinho was relatively an unknown (rising star) only Rivaldo was the other proven star R9 had by his side but yet he delivered.
R9 gets credit for the 07 Liga title, his transferred came after the winter break. Here's a complete lists of all of his achievements: Club Titles: South American Cadet Championship (1) - 1992 Minas Gerais State League: 1993 Brazilian Cup (2) - Cruzeiro 93 & Corinthians 09 Campeonato Mineiro '94 - Cruzeiro. - Mineiro Championship with Cruzeiro. Netherlands Cup - PSV 96 Spanish Super Cup (2)- Barcelona 96, Real Madrid 2003. Copa Del Rey/ Spanish Cup - Barcelona 97 Cup Winners Cup - Barcelona 97 UEFA Cup - Inter 98 Tim Trophy - Inter 02 Trofeo Joan Gamper (1): Barcelona 96. Trofeo Birra Moretti Cup (2): Inter 01, 02. Intercontinental Cup - Real Madrid 02 Championship of Spain La Liga (2) - Real Madrid 03 & 07. Santiago Bernabéu Trophy (3): 2003, 2005, 2006 Naranja Cup of Valencia (Spain) (1): 2003 Real Madrid Memorial Jesús Gil Trophy (1): 2005 Real Madrid Xango Cup (1): 2006 Real Madrid Trofeo Luigi Berlusconi (1): Milan 2007 UEFA Super Cup (1): Milan 2007 FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2007 Taça dos Invictos (1): 2009 Corinthians (oferecida pela Federação Paulista de Futebol) Campeão Paulista (1): 2009 Corinthians Selecao Titles: Campeonato COMMEBOL Sub-16. - Commebol Sub-16 Championship. - Brazil 1991. South American Championship U-19 - Brazil 1993 UMBRO Cup - Brazil 1995. World cup (2) - Brazil 1994, 2002. Copa America (2) - Brazil 1997, 1999. Confederations Cup - Brazil 1997. Bronze medalist with Brazil at the Olympic Tournament (1996). Personal Awards: Ballon D' Or (2) - 1997, 2002. FIFA Player of the year (3) - 1996, 1997, 2002. Player of the year "World Soccer Award" (3) - 1996, 1997, 2002. Onze D' Or/Eleven of gold (2) - 1997, 2002. UEFA European Player of the Year (1) - 1998. UEFA Best Striker of the Year (1) - 1998. IFFHS' World' S Signal Goal Scorer of the Year (1) - 1997. Rec.sport.soccer Player of the Year Award (3) : 1996, 1997, 2002. Better hope evolving/moving in Europe "The Award Cheer/The Bravo Awards" (2) -1997, 1998. European gold shoe (1) - 1997 (34 goals). Rey del Fútbol de Europa (newspaper El País) (2) - 1996, 1997. Best foreign player of the championship of Spain (2) - 1997, 2003. Top Scorer of the championship of the Netherlands (1) - 1995. Top Scorer of the championship of Spain (2) - 1997, 2004. Italian League Player of the Year (1) - 1998. Italian League Foreign Player of the Year (1) - 1998. Super Copa Top scorer (1) - 1994. Mineiro Championship Top scorer (1) - 1994. FIFA World Cup Golden Ball/MVP (1) - 1998. Top Scorer of WC (1) - 2002 "8 goals". Top Scorer of Copa America (1) - 1999 "5 goals". Best Player of the Copa America (1) - 1997 World Sports Awards "Lareus" (2) - 2003. 'Personalidad Extranjera del Año' de la BBC/ BBC's Foreign Personality of the Year (1) - 2002. Top sportsman of the year "Reuters Magazine" (1): 2002 Gran Premio de la Academia Francesa de los Deportes (1) - 2002 (Ronaldo became the only second footballer to win this award the first one was PELE in 1970). el premio Príncipe de Asturias de los Deportes concedido a la selección de Brasil en pleno (1) - For the first time, this award was given to a FOOTBALL Team "The Brazilian National team of 2002"!!! MVP of the Intercontinental Final (1) - 2002. Best Male Soccer Player of the Year ESPY Award (1) - 2003. El Trofeo Comunidad Iberoamericana, uno de los Premios Nacionales del Deporte (1) - 2004. G.Q. Magazine Man of the Year Award (1) - 2004. Premio Gredos (1) - 2005. Top Scorer of South American WC Qualifiers (1) - 10 goals. "Only Zico and Romario have scored more goals than him (11)". La Liga's All-Time Brazilian Top Scorer (117) goals. (115 was the record). el Premio Brasil 2005 en la categoría Deporte y Cultura que ha concedido la Cámara de Comercio Brasil-España (1) - 2005 elegido el hombre más elegante de Brasil, según la revista "Istoé Gente" (1) 2005. receives the Number 1 Volunteer Diploma from Luis Fernando Hernandes, president of Brazil's Red Cross, during a ceremony at the Red Cross headquarters in Rio de Janeiro - (1) 2005 Bronze Shoe WC 2006 All-Time South American WC Top Scorer All-Time WC Top Scorer 15 goals 2nd All-Time Brazilian Top Scorer (62 goals). Golden Foot (1) - 2006. Campeonato Sudamericano sub-17 Top Scorer 8 goals (1993) Campeonato Mineiro/Cruzeiro Top Scorer 22 goals (1994) Oscar del calcio AIC 2007 (1): Campione dei campioni Award (2007) Premio Gianni Brera 2007 (1) : AC MILAN Deportivo del año 2007 Il Pirata d'Oro 1998 (1) Inter Milan 1998 Brazilian Football Museum Hall of Fame : 2008 (Inducted into the Brazilian Hall of Fame) FES Key to the City Award (1) 2008 : Ronaldo’s Friends vs Zidane’s Friends. O prêmio de craque do Campeonato Paulista 2009 (1): Corinthians 2009. I.R.E.O (Intergovernmental Renewable Energy Organization) IREO Renewable Energy Award (1) 2009: IREO Renewable Energy Award is a global awards program designed to recognize those at the forefront of energy innovation. O Fenômeno recebeu uma placa do presidente do Cruzeiro, Zezé Perrella & Colocou os pés na calçada da fama do Mineirão (1) 2009. Minutos antes do jogo entre Avaí e Corinthians (Atacante do Corinthians é homenageado pela diretoria do clube catarinense no estádio onde marcou o seu primeiro gol pela seleção), em Florianópolis, o atacante Ronaldo deixou a marca dos seus pés na calçada da fama da Ressacada (1) 2009. 'Brasileiro do Ano' (1) 2009 - Jogador recebe prêmio de 'Brasileiro do Ano' Goal.com - Striker of the decade award (1) - 2010 Goal.com - Player of the decade award (1) - 2010 Escolhido como 'craque superação' pela entidade Assembleia Legislativa de São Paulo (1) - 2010
That's not the matter mate, as I repeated previously, I was only referred about your punctual comparison about their first World Cups and how the form you presented it seemed give to Ronaldo an incomprehensible advantage because Garrincha didn't play the first two matches and Ronaldo won his call up (what is obviously a fallacy). I wasn't discussing about the overall comparison between them. About that, I think Ronaldo has the same potential as had the greatest Brazilian players but descends in my own ranking because his irregularity by injuries in spite the decisive he was in the big stages because his contenders were also great.
How is R9 earning his WC spot a fallacy? I was just trying to state the facts, that's all. I bet there were some folks in here who didn't know Garrincha and Pele for that matter were bench players at the beginning of the 58 WC. Therefore, I just wanted to bring that into the equation. This is the way I see it: 1) Di Stefano (Puskas 2nd place) 1950's 1) Pele (Garrincha 2nd place) 1960's 1) Cruyff (Beckenbauer 2nd place) 1970's 1) Maradona (Zico/Platini 2nd place) 1980's 1) Ronaldo (Zidane 2nd place) 1990's All of these (Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, and Ronaldo) were the best players of their generation! And I feel that Ronaldo was as good if not better than all the 2nd place players.
ronaldos impact for real madrids 2007 spanish leaque title was relativ meaningsless... ..he has played only ca. 330 minutes total..1 goal per 330 minutes.. this argumentation its definitiv not impressive for me in a debatte best players.....lol..
Not exactly mate, what I think is a fallacy is the form that you emphasize conveniently certain characteristics favoring to Ronaldo in the punctual impression of your comparison. Yes, are facts, but that's exactly why a fallacy functions, isn't a lie but...: If you are trying to make this comparison, you're not being impartial. You're referring Garrincha was a bench player who became a starter when, actually, he was the starter almost all the tournament apart of the first two matches, and not only that, also was one of the figures to his team. You're referring Ronaldo as a World Cup winner omitting Garrincha was in 1958 and ignoring of direct form he didn't play any minute for that team. Also you show as a great achievement that he have obtained a place in that team, achievement what obtained all the players of each squad, including also Garrincha in 1958.
All stats aside, Zico was a much more complete player than Ronaldo our Garrincha. I don't think it's fair to compare Garricha to Zico, or even to Pelé, because he was such a unique (and mythical) player. As for Ronaldo, he was undeniably a great player, but not at the same level as Zico or Pelé. Plus Zico is a role model, his moral character above reproach. I wish the same could be said about Ronaldo, or even Pelé... And by the way, we're not talking about "Brazilian 2nd best" here. We're talking about GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME. Just to clarify.
He got credit for collecting a paycheck. And honestly, you don't have to spit out his accomplishments every other page. We all know them already.
all-time 11 (with second best) 1. Pelé (GOD) 2. Garrincha (HOLY SPIRIT) 3. Leônidas (SON) 4. Didi (POPE) 5. Zizinho (CARDINAL) 6. Domingos da Guia (APOSTLE PETER) 7. Nilton Santos (APOSTLE PAUL) 8. Gérson (LEFT-FOOTED ANGEL) 9. Carlos Alberto (THE EXTERMINATING ANGEL) 10. Tostão (CHERUBIN'S CHIEF) 11. Gilmar (EVER-SMILING HEAVEN'S SECURITY GUARD) ------------------------------------------------------- all-time 23 gilmar djalma santos-carlos alberto-domingos da guia-nilton santos didi-zizinho garrincha-pelé-leônidas da silva-rivelino taffarel/barbosa leandro-aldair-mozer-júnior zico-gérson-tostão jairzinho-romário-canhoteiro coach: joão saldanha SAINT PATRON: FRIENDEREICH GRAY EMINENCE: FALCÃO MARTYR: RONALDO SACRISTAN: RONALDINHO .
Perú FC, That's total heresy. Recommend you to confess tomorrow very early in the morning and pray as many Ave-Marias & Padres Nuestros as the 'father' prescribes you. Roberto Carlos was a mess defensively, Nilton Santos was a flawless defensive & offensive monster during his whole career. Say: yes, I, sinner, confess. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5LRukMm4c"]YouTube- Nilton Santos marca gol na estréia do Brasil na Copa de 58[/ame]
If we were to take R9's goal away guess what would happen? RM would have lost that game, this means Barcelona would have ended up winning la liga .
Okay here we go again mate. Garrincha was a bench player at the beginning of the 1958 WC is this correct? Yes, it's a FACT! He became a starter and contributed to Brazil's WC triumph. I'm not trying to take anything away from Garrincha, nothing at all. In 98 at age 21 he was already the selecao's go to guy (something GARRINCHA never was but became in 62 due to Pele's injury) this is another factor that I take into consideration when I compare and contrast legendary players such as Ronaldo vs Zico, Garrincha, etc. Garrincha dribbled the ball through the legs of Nilton Santos (accoring to many Brazilians the best LB ever) in his first team practice. This is the same N. Santos who got owned by a 50 year old Matthews in some exhibition game... That's nice and dandy...RONALDO faced SAN PAOLO MALDINI without a doubt the greatest LB in the history of the game and arguably one if not the best defender ever! A guy who had ROMARIO for breakfast, lunch, and dinner in more than one occasion! A guy who faced Maradona, Zico, Platini, Zidane, you name. ANd this is the same guy who's on record for stating the following: "My toughest opponent alongside Maradona” – Maldini when asked about facing Ronaldo. - ENOUGH SAID!
So I guess DIDA is not a WC champion either since he didn't play in 2002, right? pllleeeeeeeeeeeeease. Ronaldo is a 2-time WC winner and WC finalist something Garrincha and ZIco never managed to do
And I guess DAGOODS is playing 'dumbie' because what is meant by 'he did not play' is 'he didn't actively participate'. On the pitch. Of course Ronaldo & Dida 'were' respectively world champions in 1994 & 2002 in terms of 'receiving medals' but in terms of ACTIONS among those sacred white lines R9 did NOTHING in 1994 & Dida didn't EITHER in 2002. On the other hand Garrincha was the sensation of two Cups in a row - & was crucial in both conquests. On the pitch. Pllleeeeeeeeeeeeeease. Finalist?... I don't want to be finalist, I want to be WC champion LOL ... What Ronaldo was is a tragicomic WC final LOSER, something Garrincha NEVER had the displeasure to 'be'... Know nothing about football, bud. So what?... Leônidas, Di Stéfano, Eusébio, Puskas & Cruyjff never won any WC title and compared to them Ronaldo is a flea. Anderson Polga & Juninho Paulista were world champions too: could you tell me WHO they were? ...
1. No matter how you see, Ronaldo is a 2-time WC winner . And he took his team to the FINALS in 98! 2. True, but then again RONALDO never experienced getting eliminated in the group stages something Garrincha is familiar with 1966 anyone? 3. Ronaldo won as much or more at the INTERNATIONAL level than Zico and Garrincha combined, FACT he did this with less talented teammates, FACT and was the leader of the pack! FACT
Ronaldo won one miserable WC on the back of Dinho (quarter-final) & Rivaldo (final). Period. Took his team to defeat...in more concrete words. Yeah, now Garrincha wan't injured in 66 as 'poor Maradona, Baggio & Ronaldo' were 'in 1990, 1994 & 1998'... Just cuzz you wish? Man, you won't thransform a 'fact' in a fact by merely repeating & putting in bold the word 'fact'. Looks like you're getting desperate.
1. 8 goals and was the only Brazilian to score in the semis and finals. Another FACT! 2. Garrincha wasn't injured in 66, he was simply out of shape, there's a difference! Zico was injured in 86 yes, but so was Rummenigge in 86 as well! 3. Nope, my dear KK...just stating the facts, that's what I do!