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Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by OWN GOAL, Dec 10, 2011.
And yet you have nothing to say about the ref blowing the final whistle with the ball in mid-air...
That is not true. While it was unfair that Argentina got to play later, the time was not changed so they would play after Brazil.
Most of the matches were scheduled in advance to be played earlier in the day to accommodate the European TV. But ATC (Argentine TV that had the rights to the games domestically) got Argentina's matches scheduled later so they could be seen in prime time in Argentina. This scheduling happened in advance, it was agreed contractually that Argentina's games would be played later in the day, before it was known that Argentina and Brazil would be playing in the same second round group, let alone that the third match would be deciding the finalist.
As far as the corner kick, that ref was an idiot. He was known to be an idiot.
To comment on the premise of this thread, there are always controversies, FIFA was never clean and will likely never be clean. But Pele was a great player, Brazil was a great team that played great football in the 58-70 era. I don't think anybody can dispute that.
Thanks. I see now all of their games in the whole tournament were played at the same time. Looks like it was decided ahead of time. What should have happened is they should have changed the time of the Brazil game against Poland. I am not sure what politics would have been involved to make that move. I am not even sure the Brazilian federation even tried to move the game. If they didn't they should have.
incidents like this have happened many times when the time run out and this could have been the reason for the ref having whistled with the ball in the air
he must have abided by the law of the game
i have provided cilito an interview with havelange and i recommend it to u as he elaborated in the reasons that lead to brazil elimination
Again ... just because Havelange didn't know about a setup doesn't mean it didn't happen. I am sure if there was setup, they sure as hell wouldn't let the Brazilian FIFA president know about it. So that interview is pretty irrelevant IMO.
That they happened many times does not mean the referee made the right decision. The ball was headed and net-bound, and a victory for Brazil may well have changed the entire destiny of the tournament.
Over here you are expressing a different opinion:
An opinion which was correct: the scheduling was changed.
Really, I wouldn't really put stock in OWN GOAL's conspiracy theories as I left an arabic forum which became infested with these tales about how Pele was havelange's invention and that Brazil's 5 WCs are all stolen. It all started with some lebanese man who is an "arab-nazi" in the sense that he is a massive german fan that he considers Hitler a hero (I have seen alot of those german "fans"). These people put everything involving Brazil under the microscope. And the so called book written by David Yallop is the Quran for them.
Nice guilt by association tactics burco
That is what I used to think, but since then I've been exposed to evidence that changed my mind, from somebody who used to work at ATC.
i beg to differ
brazil attained all its titles after a great help from the junta and fifa too
in 1970 pele elbowed the uruguayan player and yet the referee turned a blind eye and if pele was sent off he would have not played the final and therefore brazil might have not won it
garrincha and ronaldinho played the finals after their suspentions were removed
many languages have described these two scandalous events
وفي لقاء النصف نهائي امام اصحاب الارض تشيلي
ورغم فوز البرازيل 4 2
تم طرد جارينشيا مما يعني عدم لعبه اللقاء المقبل
وهو المباراة النهائية امام تشيكسلوفاكيا
وغياب جارينشيا مع غياب بيليه يعني افتقاد البرازيل لعنصرين مهمين
التاريخ الكروي دون حادثة فريدة من نوعها
الرئيس البرازيلي يتوسط لكي يلعب غارينشيا المباراة النهائية para que intercedessem junto a FIFA, e aos organizadores do torneio, para que Garrincha fosse perdoado, o que, de fato, ocorreu"
Jango teve de interceder para Garrincha jogar na final
"هو كَانَ هناك ذلك Garrincha تشيلي طُرِدَ متأخراً في اللعبةِ،
لكن بدلاً من أَنْ يُصْفَعَ مَع a منع عن اللعب لمباراة واحدة إلزامية، إستلمَ a تنفيس مِنْ إتحاد كرة القدم العالمي وسُمِحَ للِعْب في النهائي."http://www.cbc.ca/sports/worldcup2006/history/events/1962.html
لعب غارينشيا النهائي ودعم بلاده التي ربحت ذلك اللقب
3 1 علي تشيكسلوفاكيالاعب شيلي الذي طرد مع جرنشيا لم يلعب المركز الثالث مع منتخبه امام يوغسلافيا
LANDA Honorino (CHI) 80', GARRINCHA (BRA) 83'</STRONG>
بينما غارينشيا لعب النهائي ودعم منتخبه </http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1962/wc62semifinal.html
في الدور نصف النهائي من كأس العالم 62 ، وطرد جارينشا من المباراة ضد تشيلي بعد اعتدائه على لاعب في الفريق المنافس. لا يزال، وذلك بفضل الدهاء السياسي باولو ماشادو دي كارفاليو (رئيس الوفد البرازيلي)، لم يكن الحكم على لاعب من قبل الطرد وانتهى بها المطاف الحصول على إذن للعب في نهائي كأس العالمhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/copadomundo/legends/garrincha.shtml
their prospects hardly helped by Garrincha's availability to play despite his sending-off in the semi-final.
Ronaldinho waits to learn fate
Brazilian match-winner Ronaldinho will learn on Sunday whether he has a chance of playing in the World Cup final should his country get there.
He now stands to serve an automatic two-game suspensionfor the red card shown to him by Mexican referee Filipe Ramos Rizo.
(بعد احتساب العديد من الركلات الحرة ضد جارينشا في مباراة تشيلي، نال البطاقة الحمراء في الدقيقة 83،
وهو ما كان يعني بطبيعة الحال أنه سيوقف ولن يلعب في المباراة النهائية. ولكن نظراً للظروف التي طرد فيها،
منح FIFA النجم الذي كان في التاسعة والعشرين من العمر عفواً خاصاً ليلعب في النهائي، ليبدع
ويتألق كعادته ويحتل العناوين الرئيسية في الصحف الصادرة بعد ذلك.)
How could that be ? Pele was a "myth" created by FIFA and Havelange. Therefore Brazil couldn't possibly feel his absence in the final ...
Oh yeah ... and completely ignoring the fact that the Uruguayan player had stepped on Pele on the ground while the play was dead. Fact is Pele disguised that elbow really well from the refs point of view. So well that the ref actually called a foul on the Uruguayan player.
The Ronaldinho case has been discussed to death and you have been proven wrong.
but he scored the first goal and assisted in another one
pele was an excellent player but he wasnt the best. i think ronaldo, ronaldinho and garrincha are far better than he is
when i said fifa and havelange created pele i relied on some facts such as when he stole maradonas prize as player of the century and also when fifa erased gerd mullers and other players goals and kept all peles ones even those which he scored in funny matches in order to make him the best scorer of all times
uruguay team was obligated to travel to the brazilian city of guadalajara
ronaldinhos case never happened to another player from another country!
stuff like these did not only help brazil win but also its players like ronaldo became fifa player of the year
in 1994 havelange changed the referee to a latino one to favor brazil against sweeden and this helped romario become the player of the year!!
the brazilian players won prizes they didnt deserve because of the brazilian empire (fifa)
Now he is good but not that good ...
Saying Ronaldo and Ronaldinho were better than Pele is absurd. They might have been better in some specific areas but overall its not even close.
The whole premises of that FIFA player of the Century deal was absurd to begin with. You cannot use that as a proof that Pele's fame was produced. It only proves that FIFA are idiots. Think about it, they created an award based on public vote submitted via the Internet back in 99. I am not even going to get into the fact of Internet access in Brazil at the time as a problem. My main issue is that most people who voted probably never saw Pele' play, as you probably haven't, because of when he played. So what was the point ? They definitely made a mess of it afterwards but that's FIFA's idiocy.
I don't use awards as a basis for judging players. Those are for the weak minds.
if he was never seen by people then how come he managed to be the second after maradona
he must not have been in the list dont u think?
neither do i
it is really absurd
C'mon ... you must be smarter than this. I am also sure most people who voted for Pele (brazilians included) never even saw him play. They were voting based on his name and on what other people/players/analysts have said. That's why the voting was so stupid and ill-conceived.
maybe they never voted for him because he didnt play in europe
if he played over there he wdnt have scored a thousand goal which he always uses to challenge players
pele never scored a great goal in wc
he never played in europe
i think parameters like these were the reason some people didnt vote for him
i heard that pele is not the best in brazil and the best is garrincha but im not sure if thats correct or not
1 - Back then SA was as strong as Europe.
2 - Pele is not a likable character himself. The whole 1000 goals deal blows. He really doesn't need that to assert his legacy. His numbers were already amazing.
3 - Never scored a great goal in WC ??? Seriously ?
4 - Some people would say Garrincha was better. But that is a minority.
Pele' was amazing. He shot as well with left and right legs from short and long distances. He was a great header of the ball too. He was a great dribbler, he was intelligent on the field, he passed well, he was strong, and he had incredible balance. This combination has rarely been seen in any attacking player in history.
He scored in 2 WC Finals NOT IN HIS PRIME as he was injured in 2 WCs in his prime. He scored in the Intercontinental Cup finals giving a masterful performance against Benfica in Portugal. So he was also clutch.
And no amazing goals in WC ??? His first goal against Wales, the goal against Sweden in the 58 in the final, the one in Chile, and the header in the final against Italy were all beauties. Maradona had some prettier ones, but on the other hand, he never scored in a Final and he played 2 in his prime.
You are so biased that it is funny... I will respond to you just for fun:
1)he didnt play in europe. No he didn't. this is a fact
2)if he played over there he wdnt have scored a thousand goal which he always uses to challenge players. No, you can't say that. Brazilian National League at that time was as good as or even more competitive than Europe. (Just look at Intercontinental cup results as indication that Argentine and Brazilian league were at least on par with Europe)
3) pele never scored a great goal in wc. This is a Lie. He score a great goal IN EVERY WC he played. he is the proof :[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNb6Aw_TMUs"]Pelé's 12 World Cup Goals in 60 Seconds - YouTube[/ame]
4) Yes you already stablish that
So your 4 points are just two, Never played in Europe and never score a great goal at WC... 1) is mutted, he play at a time Brazil league was great and 2) is just plain wrong...
No, ppl didn't vote for him it's because the was a player from late 50, 60s and early 70. Run again the same voting and watch Messi and C Ronaldo run away with the popular vote. ppl that participate in on-line voting tends to be of a particular age range. they never watched Pele play live (I didn't also) or any other old greats that's why ppl who vote on line tend to vote for current players.
There is of course a very easy way of addresing this, and to be neutral when judging something. It is called "a neutral point of view" you probably never heard of that.
Just research what neutral ppl like any professional european -players or coach - who watch Pele play live to get a good perspective of the guy worth... you could do the same for Brazil NT and it's you care about a balanced point of view. Just saying
how is it going by the way
are u still boycotting that forum coz i never seen u in a long time
how do u guys want me to believe that pele is the best player?
how can i believe knowing that he was made by havelange as stated by havilange himself
pele never won copa america coz havelange wdnt waste the bribe money on it
the late socrates said in a uae magazine (super, 2006, post 145) that havelange was the reason why brazil won 5 wc and he said he was angry when fifa helped brazil beat spain in 86 when the ref allowed his off side goal and denied a clear spainish goal and he also said he expressed this anger inside the team and got a trouble with one of the brazillians official who was gonna expelled him but santana refused so hard
shall i believe them or believe the mass media ??!!
i know that brazil is a strong team and pele is a great player but people think they are the best because they still do not know the truth