Gallup Poll: religiosity of each state

Discussion in 'Spirituality & Religion' started by bright, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. royalstilton

    royalstilton New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    If you could point to a group that consistently acted in the interests of others, putting aside their personal agenda for the good of Mankind, I might agree with you that we know what's good for us.

    But the fact is that no matter how superficially altruistic we might be, ultimately we act in our own selfish interests. We even sabotage what would be better to maintain control over what is good for us.

    A compelling example is tacking riders onto legislation. Some of these tag-alongs are fairly benign, but the way the political process operates, one hand has to wash another. Sometimes the rider is of such narrow benefit to a small group and has nothing to do with the specific bill being drafted that it's obviously a pay-off for a key vote.

    Why can we not avoid this kind of practice? Because people are inherently selfish.

    Of course, this behavior falls on a continuum, with people like Bernie Madoff on one end and Mother Theresa or someone like her nearer the other end, if you buy into the idea that she was pretty self-sacrificing. You can supply your own example.

    Mother Theresa was able to access the best available health care, when the people she was serving in India had no such access. Was that selfish of her?

    You judge.

    But in any case, nobody abandons completely their own sense of what's best for them, even when, on occasion, someone else must suffer as the result.

    Being better educated is not the remedy. Being affluent is not the remedy. Saying that you're a Christian or a Moslem or a Buddhist is not the remedy.

    But if you and I lived what Christ taught, it would be vastly different. We surely don't. I don't claim to and I don't think you do.

    No other path can make the claim. Not Buddhism, not Hinduism, not Islam. I refrain from saying that Judaism cannot because I think Jews living what the OT says would be able to foot the bill. Joseph ( not the husband of Mary ) is an example of what I'm suggesting.


  2. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Location:
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    So you're making the assumption that because, thus far, humans have (supposedly) not behaved in an altruistic fashion, that somehow implies that we're incapable of understanding the nature of existence and our place in it? I'm not sure why one necessarily has anything to do with the other.

    But anyway, what I, and I assume Peledre, take issue with is the notion that there's something fundamental about the nature of the universe and humanity that makes us incapable of understanding it. It's an assumption on your part, and it's one that I too find, if not degrading, then definitely depressing. And your acceptance that "this is the way things have been, so then that's how they must be" is also depressing. But then those of us who subscribe to the idea of evolution, whether that be physical, cultural, spiritual, or all three, still hold out hope that understanding is worth striving for, and find the notion that Big Daddy God is the one who knows best not at all representative of the world we live in (although I think it's possible there's some entity who identifies itself as God who acts like it knows best and doesn't dissuade humans from thinking that).

    And it's not clear to me what unique "claim" Christianity is making. All those religions you mention have various schools that do lay out actions that will lead to whatever sort of salvation or understanding they promise. Not the same as the Christian salvation, of course, but then according to Hinduism and Buddhism we don't necessarily need saving in the same way, except maybe from our own ignorance. And there are practices and teachings that lead one to that liberation, even if, like in Christianity, few actually follow them to the fullest extent.

    Basically it's apples and oranges. Different religions don't necessarily accept the assumptions of the other, so it's difficult to compare their effects. For example Christians don't accept the nondualistic realization of Hindu saints, and Hindus don't necessarily think Christians reach the highest state of mystical attainment, instead being stuck in dualism (although I've seen some that do acknowledge Jesus as being a mystic of the highest order, but just one avatar among many, not the be-all end-all).
  3. royalstilton

    royalstilton New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    Maybe you understand the nature of the Universe and your place in it. That's a question that has been broadly debated for centuries and will be for centuries, assuming that the apocalyptic end that is forecast in Revelation doesn't happen soon.

    Frankly, I think it's a bit cavalier to state categorically that we know the answer to the "What's It All About, Alfie?" question. If we know the answer, why is the debate on-going.

    But, and this is an important distinction, I didn't say that we don't understand the nature of the Universe and our place in it.

    I said "we don't know what's good for us".

    If we do, why don't we do what's good for Us?
  4. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Location:
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    I don't think "we don't know what's good for us" is the issue, it's "we can't possibly know what is good for us, but this other being can."

    And why don't we consistently live our truth, or "do what's good for us?" To me that's the more interesting question, and I don't think the doing necessarily follows from the knowing.


  5. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 1999
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This isn't exactly striking evidence. When you remove religious giving, the difference between the two is only 10%. We're talking about people who are absolutely certain their eternal souls are on the balance, who have directives from from the son of God himself on how to act, and they are pretty darn close to what people would do anyway without God's commands. We're also talking about people who divorce more, who get pregnant as teens more, and who are in prison at a higher rate than non-religious people. If Christians were a) actually practicing what they preached and b) were actually right about what people do without religion, then none of these would happen and the charity thing would be a striking difference not just a minor one.
    What I'm trying to do is point out that at one point in time, being a Christian actually meant something. It still does to a small number of people, like to a Jehovah's Witness who needs a blood transfusion. But to modern Christians, it means "I get to live however I want, and everyone else gets to live however I want".
  6. peledre

    peledre Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Location:
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    The Universe is.

    Frankly I happen to think that there is no answer to that question. You seem to think we're incapable of understanding.

    Maybe because "good" is subjective.
  7. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 1999
    Location:
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Country:
    United States
    For the most part I agree.

    There is a lot of nominalism and outright absorption of the culture. It bugs me to heck, but I try not to be too critical because I realize I am also working through my own issues.


    Jesus would not be happy with a lot of the American church. I had a professor in seminary who liked to point out that Jesus wouldn't be allowed in most of our churches.
  8. royalstilton

    royalstilton New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    post-modernism strikes another blow... :eek:
  9. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Location:
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    Geez, and this isn't even on the Bible-thumper side of the state.

    Atheist bus ads are desecrated - Group: Vandalism shows how group faces prejudice

    Although I object to use of the term "desecrated" in this incident, I'm actually not surprised by this.

    SMART is replacing the signs per their policy, which is nice seeing as how Detroit is swimming in extra money. :rolleyes:
  10. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States


    So you should be for abortion, since all aborted fetuses go to heaven! I should be mad at my mama, I could be hanggiing out with big GOD and Jr.
    :mad:



    Me too, I guess that there are a lot of non-believers in Las Vegas!
  11. REALfootballRulez

    REALfootballRulez Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Country:
    United States
    The trend for decades is religion has less and less influence in the west. There is an inverse relationship between technology and religion.

    In societies that are more technologically advanced you generally see a decline in religion.

    Religioustolerance.org states how by 2040 Christianity will be a minority in the U.S. and it really already is because most Christians are CINO, Christians in name only.

    Church attendance is only 26% and a third to a half of those only go for the social experience or because they have to.
  12. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Location:
    in Colorado, born in da' Big Easy
    Club:
    Baton Rouge Capitals
    Country:
    United States
    I'm trying to find the links in one of these threads about Conservatives/GOP/religious have high incarceration rates, higher teen pregnancy, and lower education levels. I've seen the links to articles but can't seem to find them.

    Anyone want to help? I'm stuck in the backwoods look at page after page on a dial up (yea, it still exist) that is connect at 26.4. Please save my day and help me show a idiot the light.
  13. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Country:
    United States
    Teen Pregnancy: Reproductive Health Journal

    Education levels: There are articles and papers covering this all over the internet.

    I haven't heard about a correlation between religiosity and incarceration rates.
  14. REALfootballRulez

    REALfootballRulez Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Country:
    United States
    The bible belt has higher rates of divorce, obesity, and teen pregnancy.

    It's probably due to all the pressure some people have to be a "good Christian".

    So due to all that pressure they eat like gluttons, get young girls pregnant, and then get divorced! :D
  15. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Location:
    in Colorado, born in da' Big Easy
    Club:
    Baton Rouge Capitals
    Country:
    United States
    Ironically, I saw the post on this very page, quoted by someone else. I thought I edited/deleted that post of mine. But thanks, just more links.
  16. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Location:
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Country:
    Spain
    How is that possible given the projections of the US' future Latino population, the overwhelming majority of which will probably be at least nominally Catholic?
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    Yes but not all of us keep the superstitions, but I agree the Majority do. even when most Latinos don't go to church.
  18. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Location:
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    But couldn't that just be a correlation with lower incomes and education levels? Inner cities also have higher rates of the same.
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    are people in the inner cities religious?
  20. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Location:
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    Don't know, some are, some aren't, I definitely wouldn't consider it on a "bible belt" scale," but I just don't know.

    Brings up another question though: are poorer, less educated people more likely to be religious? I'm just reluctant to assume it's religious beliefs that cause these factors, when it could actually be that religious beliefs are a result of their socioeconomic situation along with those factors. Or that a certain type of religious belief (authoritarian, fundamentalist) is more likely among poorer, less educated people.

Share This Page