Gadaffi falls?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Naughtius Maximus, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that is awesome! they're desert bros!
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    You miss the point

    He was rebranded as a top ally in the WOT having formerly been a total villain.
     
  3. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I did miss that point.
    mainly because my attitude about that kind of stuff is "so what?" that's international politics for you. the world of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "the strong take what they can, the weak get what they must."
    sometimes states align themselves with all manner of unsavory characters to oppose some greater perceived evil (e.g. the US with Latin American and African dictatorship during the Cold War). anyone who has a reasonably sophisticated understanding of how international politics works will understand that, and will not be impressed with those pics. I mean hell, the US is aligned with Saudi Arabia right now! you don't think we would drop the royal house of Saud in a heart beat when it became evident that it was going to collapse from an internal struggle? and we would most assuredly accompany said drop with all kinds of declarations about our principles of freedom and democracy and the will of the people. never mind that we supported that same repressive dictatorship for decades.
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More importantly, we are willing to drop our dictatorial friends but not our democratic ones...anybody calling for the ouster of the Greek or Irish leadership last year?
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  6. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The most hilarious thing is that Gaddafi could technically hide out in the United States since we never became part of the ICC and don't have to extradite him.

    That being sad, I don't think it's a coincidence that have fallen so far have had close ties with the West. This goes for Saleh in Yemen, Ben Ali in Tunisia, Gaddafi now in Libya, but especially Mubarak in Egypt. If a the regime in an Arab country is close or friendly with the U.S., that's usually an indication that its authoritarian.
     
  7. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That being said, I think the overwhelming majority of the 6 million Libyans feel very thankful towards France and Britain. There's tons of graffiti thanking Sarkozy and French flags are always seen in the masses of Benghazi. So that's actually pretty cool, to have done something useful for once in the Middle East. It's rare but it happens.
     
  8. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if they leave quickly and gracefully, that feeling of gratitude will continue.
    but if they leave too quickly, they will leave a fledgling democracy with a huge power gap that could easily degenerate into chaos. that's a tough choice for them.
     
  9. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Leave how? There are no boots on the ground besides a few dozen special forces.
     
  10. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Denver
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I call dibs on his sunglasses collection.
     
  11. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I call dibs on his personal security babes :D
     
  12. Heinz

    Heinz Member

    Nov 19, 2005
    Evergreen State
    Another Iraq/Aghan is on the rise!!
     
  13. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I call dibs on his wardrobe, hats, tents, and camels.
     
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only democracies in the Arab world are Palestine and Iraq. The chances are, if a regime exists in the Arab world, it's dictatorial.
     
  15. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I have a feeling that somebody beat you guys to it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Lebanon?
     
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's the difference. Gaddafi was one of the people that funded the IRA that killed about 3500 people in Britain but, then again, so did some people in the USA, albeit not it's leadership. Point being, we ain't gonna start bombing the US any time soon.

    Mind you, as far as RT is concerned that shows we have an 'inconsistent approach' or whatever it is their resident retards bang on about :D
    Plus I suspect there'll be a few more in the next year or so :)

    Actually, on that subject, I wouldn't mind betting that Libya will end up being a more effective democracy than Egypt which has retained more of the army controls. On the other hand maybe the Egyptian army will be like the Turkish one which has retained enough control so as to maintain a secular democracy.

    We'll see I suppose.
     
  18. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Israel?

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ates-react-to-events-in-libya/?iref=allsearch

    Interesting reactions from GOP candidates to the news out of Libya
     
  19. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    An article examining the success - so far - of President Obama's strategy in Libya. This is the most interesting part:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61849.html

    !!!
     
  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Fortunately, our European friends, including Germany, have pledged to lead the post-Ghaddafi efforts.
     
  21. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    I've never seen a profile of the guy. How does he get a pillow case on with that chin (or lack thereof)?
     
  22. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to toot my Commander-in-Chief's horn, but:

    At the end of Bush II's second term in office, we had ONE largely functioning Arab democracy (Lebanon) and one Jewish democracy (Israel) - given Turkey's unique status as a Euro-Asian-Islamic-Turkish-WHATEVER, it is a democracy but doesn't really fit. After eight years of warfare, he had managed to turn Afghanistan from a unitary, albeit fundamentalist country into an anarchy that would make Somalia proud, and Iraq into an electoral authoritarian system that took two years to complete an election.

    Three years into Obama's term, wherein - as schrutebuck points out - we spend $1.1 billion on the Libyan effort and are pulling out and returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan, we have this list of democracies and/or democratizing states:

    Tunisia
    Egypt
    Lebanon
    Morocco
    Israel
    Libya
    Jordan
    Syria
    Iraq
    Palestine (soon to ask for UN approval for statehood)
    Yemen

    Oh yeah. Now, there is a good chance that most of these countries will have some sort of authoritarian system - much like Mexico's before the 1990s or the current Filipino electoral regime. Yet that alone would be tremendous progress. And, if we are to be fair, it happened on Obama's watch and he deserves at least some credit. Remember when all the Bushies were claiming credit for the color revolutions? Well now they have to concede Obama getting credit for this. (Liberals - stay consistent: neither of them had much to do with this anyway)
     
  23. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Reagan gave a speech in West Berlin after a few million East Germans began protesting, and gets credit from the conservatives for bringing down the Soviet bloc two year later.

    Obama gave a speech in Cairo before there were protests. A couple of years later, Arab dictatorships fall, after a few million Arabs organize, protest, take up arms.

    Conservatives won't see the irony of this. Obama = Reagan.
     
  24. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huh?

    The East German protests were in the Fall of 1989. The Wall itself was breached on 9 November 1989.

    Reagan's "Tear Down this Wall" speech was 12 June 1987. In fact, Reagan was no longer president in 1989. His speech was only a part of a decade long struggle (and to be frank, a small part -- the State Department tried to get him to remove the words from his speech).
     
  25. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does any of that refute what he says? It may be refutable, but not by your answer. Indeed, it seems you are actually helping to make his point. President makes pleas about a certain area of the world. Within a couple of years, that area of the world takes up arms in advancement of the specific pleas that President spoke about earlier. In Reagan's case, yes ... the conservatives give him massive credit for the fall of the wall, even though he wasn't President at the moment it fell. In Obama's case, he happens to still be President. The guy you are quoting is simply saying it's ironic how different it is viewed by people on the right .... and it is (especially so because as is mentioned, Obama is the SITTING President while his "vision" as it were is coming to fruition). Personally, I think much of the "credit" given both ways is tenuous, but it's funny seeing how the same people who still are praising Reagan are contorting themselves in order not to give Obama any props.
     

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