Had a bud in the room when MLS was negotiating with Fox two contracts ago...before MSNBC. They were gonna replace MLS with infomercials. Said they were more worthwhile. Why? MLS actually had the gaul to ask for some actual money to broadcast their product, which was showing signs of finally growing. Some FN partner. Great American soccer channel. F them. Sure, there may be more pitfalls now...but more rewards. Eventually mommy has to let the kid go to school on his own, then college, then work, then to another woman. Gotta stand alone and Fox was a part of the problem. They didn't care about helping MLS grow up.
It is far too difficult to call what will happen long term. I can understand your worry about it loosing focus. But you have to look at the larger picture of it actually gaining value. What's more NBC's distribution will likely be even better as it would be more accesible (all though this remains to be seen with non-marquee matchups and their nacent streaming service). Whats more with the internet and alternative sources for news, it's not that huge of a deal if the main channel doesn't devote ALL it's time to soccer. I'm miffed that the Washington Post doesn't cover my University of Virginia Cavaliers much more heavily, but I have blogs and access to other papers and information so it evens out. Whats more we have obviously seen that there is TONS of sports contents for networks to go around. Whatever channel picks up soccer will more than likely give it a better shake than what ESPN does, namely because ESPN has SO MUCH MORE crown jewel properties, soccer just can't fit. Based on what we have heard, there is much reason to be optimistic, so you should cheer up and not sweat it as much. Trust me it would be much worse if people WEREN'T bidding on the league to get it to better channels as it would languish on FS due to audience fragmentation.
I see a clear case of "change is scary" here at work. MLS is now a viable property with long term upside with bidders and options. Just goes to show how far it's come in such a short time. FOX may have been comfortable and familiar,, but they had become a problem. MLS out grew that ghetto channel.
I'll be frank I am still a little surprised the fact that it was able to escape FOX due to NBC's bidding. I think it's equal parts MLS (gradually) growing in value along with NBC being desperate for more mainstream content. Building up MLS to something equal to the EPL let alone Liga MX in terms of viewership and mainstream recognition is something that's going to take a lot of effort by the network and especially the league.
It was a combo of both. MLS growing and the fact that folks were looking for content to finally compete against ESPN. MLS was very happy to leave. Very happy once they got the opp. I still remember the scoffing and degrading from Fox, along with so many clowns here who would take FOX's side. FOX was a major problem for Garber/MLS. Hell, remember Waldo's very recent tantrum, attacking, degrading of MLS just recently? Then that moron wonders why folks have problems with him...and to be clear I like Waldo. We need personalities like him, but he was simply idiotic and stupid for so long. I hope he works he way back, but he will have to earn it after all of his actions over the years. I just hope he stays on his meds. Say what u will about Garber, but he handles these situations incredibly well. He takes the high road, let's the others whine and complain and just soldiers on and grows the game. They were doing jigs at MLS HQ when they were able to tell FSC to F off. I guarantee u that.
I'm sure part of that was a naked negotiating tactic and ignorance of the other options MLS might have had. FSC had something for nothing, so I don't blame them for using that tactic either. Why start with an offer to pay for a freebie? I do not think Fox or any other channel owe MLS anything or have a responsibility to help grow the league either. The cost was very low for them so I can understand not seeing value or the need to do more than the minimum when it was filler for them. I think there were obvious flaws in this considering they lost their main product and had little diversity with which it could substitute. Fox, I think, undervalued the rights for the PL and MLS because it paid very little for them over a long period of time when there was little interest and I think got a bit comfortable and complacent about its importance. Why promote something that basically had to beg for placement? They were all over the PL because it finally started making them money. The pre and post game shows and pundits analyzing everything is a recent phenomenon. The production used to be lower budget then last couple seasons of FSC's MLS coverage. Heck, they used to make more on PPV of the the 10am ET kickoff than they did showing infomercials until a second choice noon game on delay. At any rate, MLS isn't going to succeed or fail because of the promotion or lack there of that ESPN, NBC, or Fox provide. You can promote the crap out of something, but if it doesn't resonate it won't grow. MLS needs to provide a compelling product. It's getting there and it's getting passionate and loyal fans out to stadiums each week. If it continues to do that, then the coverage and promotion will follow. Media companies are lazy and risk adverse. Give them a sure thing and they will come running. MLS is making strides in this and continues to progress. I just don't think Fox was holding the league back. I grew up not being able to find a game on TV anywhere, and Fox was the first channel that really provided us live games on TV regularly. I think we'll miss that when there's no more nightly news program and hours and hours of nothing but soccer on TV. We're going to go back to competing with baseball, football, and basketball's dominance of the mainstream sports channels. I'm not so sure it will fair well or that we will be better off. Look at the treatment hockey gets, for instance. They are far ahead of where soccer needs to be and it still is fighting for a small chunk of coverage.
I would normally agree with u, but it wasn't negotiation. FOX was deragatory and denigrating. FOX's public tantrums and attacks over the years are hints of this. The rub was simple. This station constantly promoted itself in every way, shape and form as the US Soccer channel. They were growing the game, helping it...they cared. It was never more than a blatant lie to a load of s**t. Negotiation is a give and take. There was no give and take, investment of partnership. There was never an attempt to support the league. It was all about the EPL. MLS was filler...plain and simple. They treated it as such. There was little negotiation. MLS had to get out. It was like an abusive relationship. The individual knows it's terrible but they don't know what else they can do, or where the can go. At the first real chance the abused runs. I've been saying it since the day I joined. The day MLS is off FOX, and FOX dies will be a great day for US Soccer. It means the game matters now.
That's fine and I really don't think MLS needed to be on Fox, but I do think FSC provides access to live soccer that no other network right now can or is willing to do. I think it will be this way for quite some time too. I was perfectly happy with the EPL coverage and I like Fox Soccer News, and can be both a fan of MLS and the PL. I don't care if their marketing was genuine or not. MLS leaving Fox was great, no question, but the channel dying will not be good for those who enjoy and are used to the wall to wall coverage. That will be gone. It's not going to happen on ESPN and I do not see NBC adding a nightly 10pm show dedicated to soccer highlights. It obviously points to a bit of arrogance and hubris on the part of Fox execs, but that seems to have been across the board and not limited to MLS. They obviously undervalued the PL as well and I think were too busy patting themselves on the back over the WC and CL rights wins to keep their go to product.
Correct, it (soccer wall to wall on ESPN or NBCSN) is not going to happen, but we could easily see BeIN be able to step (somewhat or completely) into that FoxSoccer "void" in many ways with wall-to-wall coverage of the game (and yes, a lot of that will be in "other" leagues and even more minor competitions than what FSC had at one point with both EPL and MLS). From MLS's perspective, they'll be fine going forward and there really is a lot of opportunity (apparently) for beyond 2014.
Didn't Fox offer significantly more money than NBC a couple years ago for MLS? I was under the impression that Fox offered several million dollars more per year (presumably in the $12-15 million range) than NBC, but MLS went with NBC because of NBCSN's wider availability.
BeIN could step up, but they have significantly lower carriage at the moment and with the major content on NBC and Fox (CL/WC), I'm not convinced BeIN can get the carriage necessary. I've yet to see BeIN as well since it hasn't been picked up by FiOS as yet and I would understand the reluctance to pick it up with FSC and, I'm sure GolTV at some point, going away. I'm not sure the link to AJ helps BeIN either, but I'll have to see how good the coverage is when I finally have access to it.
Again, as a distant cold hearted business guy I would agree with u. In this instance knowing what I do I have less cold heart on the subject. As for an access to live soccer? What live soccer. Remember when Gol TV had the temerity to pay a fee for the US Cup final last year! How dare they, and FSC was extremely deragatory in their condemnation of this. Since Fox doesn't want to actually pay for anything what live soccer will be out there? The SPL!? the A League!? To answer LDuck. Yes, this contract they offered more. They did their usual aggressive attack dog stance when MLS rejected...Waldo being held on his leash for the last time I hope. We offered more! Stupid MLS. We will give exposure on hour main channel! Dummies! Oh yeah, I think part of the demand was go to a winter spring schedule, despite every fact in the world saying the league was in no position to do it and succeed. Still, when u actually looked at the details the whole deal still made MLS second fiddle to the EPL and what the league is trying to actually accomplish. The MSNBC deal was much better for the overall league and where it is heading at this point. Now FOX lost the EPL. Many might assume that means FOX would have to promote MLS more. There is zero to suggest they would. If anything u might see even less soccer promotion. That is a bullet dodged for the league in hindsight. Business is business, but this angst over FOX is misplaced and absurd. Thank goodness they don't matter anymore. if they did it means MLS would be struggling mightily just to survive even now. Good riddance.
I've been pretty impressed with BeIn so far. I've gotta say, right now I've got FSC, FSC+, GolTV and BeIn. If you told me five years ago I'd be able to watch four different soccer specific networks I probably would have punched you for being such a damn liar.
I don't think the "losing bid" value was ever verified or known. But the reports were that MLS/SUM went with NBCSN/NBC because of the overall benefits (of larger distribution on cable and a handful of games on OTA national broadcast) for 2012-2014, even if it was the less (immediately) financially beneficial deal (relative to what Fox was offering for that 3-year deal as the "2nd tier" tv partner for MLS). It will be interesting to see where the CCL games wind up now on the Fox family of networks, as that likely would/could have been the similar destination for MLS content in 2013-14, had MLS not opted to go with NBC/NBCSN. Overall, I think "change" is good for the sport here (and for MLS specifically), and it helps drive things forward over time.
BeIn is not (will not be) a soccer specific chanel, they will try to get more sports apart from soccer and handball. I would not be surprised if BeIn Sports goes after more Rugby or some of the FIBA European tournaments. They will be heavely soccer in their content, but will not be a soccer niche channel IMO.
BeIN's carriage is "significantly lower" than FoxSoccer's? got a link on that? And with FoxSoccer going away, I'd say BeIN is prepared to try to surpass what the (very niche) FoxSoccer and GolTV were ever able to do (or not do) as the "niche soccer" broadcaster in the US. Plus, with ESPN, NBC and Fox all committed (more) to the game overall (if not specifically MLS/SUM) going forward, soccer's (mainstream and "network") coverage will likely continue to improve even as niche/specialty channels may come and go.
Agreed with all of this (save for the part where MLS is carried on NBCSN and NBC, but not MSNBC, afaik).
Yes, BeIN is to "soccer specific channel" as new MLS venues are to "soccer specific stadiums" (with rugby, hs/college football, concerts and various other events.) Yes, they'll offer and carry the content they can "get" and the content that "best works" for their overall business.
Yeah, I catch a lot of Rugby on Fox Soccer. I think I once even caught some Argentine Polo at like 4:00 AM when I was stuck up with a newborn. But, sure, I'll concede that BeIn is more of a global sport channel that caters to all sports, not just soccer.
[ Next year there would be almost no live coverage of games of any note so the channel going away makes sense. What I was getting at is that while it may be fun to jolly stomp on Fox because of the way it treated MLS, miscalculating the value of PL coverage while throwing all it's eggs in that basket, or the political leanings of the news division and the guy in charge, I think many will come to miss having a channel dedicated entirely to the sport. That's all I am trying to convey. Fox obviously acted stupidly and that is why the channel will die, but I will miss what it brought us solely based on the fact that I grew up getting nothing. The big loss, for me, is the nightly highlights.
I have followed the game for almost 45 years now. I donated to the USSF wheat was virtually bankrupt in the 70 and 80's. I knew all the old dogs, coaches, etc. All I had was Soccer Made In Germany and Italian highlights in RAI. FSC was a big deal to me also. However, going back to cold business man, waxing nostalgic over this channel is fine but they weren't good to the game I followed when the Nat team was basically a non story or mocked. There tactics were petty and based on folks like u and I at first. Just be happy u have us because we are better than nothing. Then it moved on to the the glory, part time fan and went along with the demeaning, mocking of MLS because it was cool. They didn’t do any hard work, care or try...like I did. F'em and good riddance.
It is true that there will be a reduction in or outright loss of dedicated soccer news shows, but I'm thinking more in terms of soccer game broadcasting getting onto bigger platforms.
A channel for soccer nerds pretending to be a player needs find a way to satisfy nerds of all descriptions, including us MLS diehards. FSC wanted to be a Murdoch-lite playah and bitch at MLS for not kissing Rupert (and Wynalda-as-stand in)'s ankles without actually doing anything to deserve such status, while giving us a semi-pro broadcast from butt-flock Alberta as a highlight show, and one that was very EPL-centric. They were incompetent at soccer nerdiness and not-even-half-assed at being playahs at winning big broadcast contracts.
First, really? Second, that show was canceled six months ago and replaced with a new one. She hasn't been on FSC since... Sounds like you've been missing for a while.