Former AS Monaco President Jérôme de Bontin Takes over for Soler

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by Slim_Tim501, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. miggly

    miggly Member

    Jan 25, 2000
    NYC
  2. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
  3. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I was under the impression that bridge was burned and the ashes pissed on.
     
  4. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if they did that, they wouldn't be Red Bull, now would they?

    I truly believe that Red Bull GmBH's corporate DNA precludes them from such decentralized thinking.

    ergo, sell already
     
  5. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Richie is nice and cozy int he USMNT set up - even if offered, he wouldn't take that poisoned chalice.

    edit : and of course, what iced1776 said

    Steve Nicol would also be a nice option
     
  6. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    THAT WILL BE MY CHOICE.....
     
  7. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    What iced mean, fu*ck off, he is American.....
     
  8. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Probably true - my main point is what don't need no magic euro-fairy dust - we need someone on the ground who scouts college players, knows MLS and American players, and is young, energetic and willing to do the kind of scouting that other successful coaches like Kreis have done south of the border.
     
  9. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    We have to be real, this is MLS and all those people to be used to the big budgets of Europe Leagues and that can buy any players they want, once come here they are in a big hole that can't come out and get confused and out of place.... Kries, Arena, Yallop, Schmid, Vermes are doing much better than our counterparts of Soler and Backe because they are used to play with a low budget and with out the glamor of those big muted stars that RBNY is used to have.....
     
  10. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    I'm not convinced that Soler actually has done a bad job. Three playoff appearances isn't necessarily bad. Not every coach wins MLS Cup, so that's a bit of a rough estimation of Backe's performance. Not to mention that much of NYRB's turnaround was accomplished before the signing of Thierry Henry. And most NY fans have said that Soler has done a good job with personel moves this season. I think any coach or gm can win if they come in with the right attitude. Most of Backe's detractors sight his shortcomings as an inability to settle on a consistent lineup and tactics. Also there's a certain intransigence in his nature. That's not really symptomatic of inability to deal with budgets but rather indecisiveness which has afflicted many domestic coaches. Preki, Hyndman and Novak share the worst of the more stubborn set characteristics. They're good coaches, but they have shortcomings that would have been apparent whether they learned their trade in Europe or here.

    And there's something to be said about the environment provided by a front office as pertaining to a coach or manager's success. Toronto FC is hell on coaches, domestic or otherwise as they've tried both methods and failed miserably either way. Personally, I believe that the one missed opportunity that they had was the premature firing of Chris Cummings when he had them finishing just a place outside of the playoffs on the last day. He's not a domestic guy, but he had them going in the right direction but they decided to replace him with one. They subsequently took a huge step backwards with Preki who quickly lost the locker room, and shortly after his job.

    I'm not saying that there isn't a learning curve for European coaches coming here and that they do not need an attitude adjustment, but it's a bit oversimplistic of an argument to just say that all foreign coaches suck at MLS and domestics are the only way to go. There are plenty of domestic coaches who suck. Not to bite on President Obama, but it's a bit more nuanced than that.
     
  11. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Soler and Backe have the biggest start in USA soccer right now and the biggest budget, and they have not a shit to show, and that in my book mean, that something isn't Kosher.....

    From 27 players 14 are European or so, that is 52% of the team are internationals, no team in MLS have more than 8%, what the hell you call it that....
     
  12. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    You got me curious, so I dug up some actual numbers from a few of the leagues better teams this season. Here's the percentage of international players:

    Red Bulls - 15/28 54%
    FC Dallas - 15/27 56%
    Sporting KC - 15/29 52%
    San Jose - 9/28 32%
    LA - 9/30 30%
    Chicago - 11/27 41%
    RSL - 14/26 54%

    So really this tells us two things:
    1) Our roster has a perfectly normal mix of Americans and Internationals compared to the league's top teams with a few exceptions like San Jose and LA.
    2) Having a majority of Americans makes pretty much zero difference when it comes to how well your team does.

    You're probably right that our percentage was higher in 2011, but Soler obviously learned the importance of getting a core of Americans together and did just that in 2012. Its a shame to see him go just after everything started to click for him.
     
    Thomas A Fina and Unak78 repped this.
  13. badideas

    badideas Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    Interesting interview with Arlo White on ExtraTime today (you can just skip to the interview, it starts a few minutes in and is only like 10 minutes long). First mentions that before a game against Dallas (escapes my memory when this was) Backe told him, "If I don't win, I get fired." So we know it's happened at least once before.

    Goes on to make another interesting point, which is that Backe has to deal with a fairly unique situation (I guess aside from the Galaxy - but they had a long solid backline last season, and aren't doing any better than us this season) in having guys making $5 mil alongside guys making $40k on the field. Mentions that Dax is playing well, but implies that people higher in the hierarchy will wonder why Rafa isn't on the field.

    Red Bull doesn't realize that running the team like a business is just bad business. Changes like this are not good during this point of the season. As others have mentioned they can jeopardize locker room stability, and that can affect performance. If we don't win, we'll never gain the sort of following Red Bull thought these signings would instantly cultivate. In 3-4 years they will be left wondering why the Cosmos (or whoever) with their new stadium in Queens are achieving more success in a shorter period of time.

    Interesting comments from Henry today also in which he says that he's "been here talking about DeRo and Richards," and now he's talking about Soler. We know he spoke skeptically about the DeRo trade, and IIRC, he was also skeptical about the Richards trade. So seeming to imply that he doesn't think this is the best time either.
     
    Unak78 and iced1776 repped this.
  14. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    That really was a fantastic interview with Arlo, I'm a big fan of the guy. Its funny to hear these guys so reasonably make Backe look sympathetic, I'm used to these boards where he's almost entirely bashed haha. I loved his defense for Henry too, we really are lucky to get to see him play in person.
     
  15. wandering soccerdog

    Mar 29, 2003
    Unless, of course, this franchise here in Harrison *becomes* the Cosmos.

    It was reported in another thread that MLS has just trademarked two names "Empire FC" and "City FC."

    Conventional wisdom says that the new Cosmos of the NASL will eventually be "promoted" to MLS and play in a new stadium in Queens.

    But I'm beginning to think another scenario might be playing itself out.

    I suspect the Red Bull corporation is going to get tired of seeing the empty seats in Sections 125, 126, & 127 on international television broadcasts.

    It's embarrassing to the brand.

    I suspect the Red Bull corporation is going to get tired of actual turnstyle counts of approximately 5,000 fans in a pivotal game against the first place team.

    It's embarrassing to the brand.

    I suspect the Red Bull corporation is going to get tired of being on this side of the Hudson instead of New York.

    It kinda screams New Jersey Nets.

    And so...I suspect the Red Bull corporation -- just like every other corporation that owns a sports team -- will eventually decide to cash in (or cash out) and sell this franchise. At which point, the Red Bull name will no longer be viable and there will need to be a re-branding.

    The names "Empire FC" and "City FC" only make sense for a team that plays in the actual city -- not in suburban Harrison.

    Therefore, the team in Queens will eventually become either "Empire FC" or "City FC" and the Red Bulls will eventually become the "Cosmos" and return the traditional name to the fanbase that has kept the professional game alive in this market since the original Cosmos folded in 1985.

    The New York metropolitan area franchise that carries the "Cosmos" name will be the biggest team in the market and the biggest team in the league.
     
  16. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Backe had NY in first place before Henry got to the team and the only DP was an aging JPA.
     
  17. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You obviously know absolutely nothing about how Red Bull operates if you believe

    a) They are that embarrassed by this
    b) Rebranding could possibly happen.

    I'm surprised since you have been around long enough to understand how Red Bull operates.

    Also, just note that there are multiple NY2 suitors and that Cosmos may not be part of NY2, so MLS would clearly need back-ups.
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  18. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting theory and part of me wishes it would happen.

    But the other part of me believes that the Red Bull corporation will continue to drag all the soccer fans in this area to a slow steady death for many MANY decades to come.
     
  19. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    You only mention 1/3 of the history, ...Let go with San Jose again, who is the mostly next Supporter Shield winner this year and the possible MLS next champion too....They have in they roster 8 internationals:
    Alexander, Haiti 26 $ 44K
    Baca, Mexico 23 $ 44K
    Ballouchy, Morroco 29 $ 138K
    Bernardez, Honduras 30 $100K
    Chavez, Honduras 28 $150K
    Dawkins, England 24 $50K
    Guavanesik , Turky 32 $ 90K
    Stephenson, jamaica 31 $ 190K

    Like you can see, they are all of them relative young players and all of them under 200K and they are super successfully with that formula, no big names or millionaires, but play better futbol than us....
     
  20. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed with most people here. Terrible timing on the move.

    I would have liked to see Soler stick around even if Backe was gone. Soler has shown that he gets this league and he can put together a heck of a roster. Maybe a different coach would have done different things. Soler had his faults but that happens when you take risks. He was probably the best GM this team ever had. Having massive resources helps obviously but 2010 and this year are two of the best teams this franchise has ever had.

    One thing that this franchise has never had is stability. Massive roster overhaul followed by coaching change after coaching change. I think looking at out roster now, we have the foundation in place. Obviously with some high priced guys people may have to go but I don't think we need a roster overhaul anymore to be able to compete. But with Houllier coming in I think he may want to overhaul things and bringing in his own people and he is clueless about US soccer. Soler has shown he knows MLS and Backe was familiar with Concacaf before he came in. I'm scared Houllier may turn into a Ruud Guulit and LA 2008 scenario.


    As for de Bontin and the business side of things, who knows how will approach that. It can't be that hard to do a better job that Heck did.
     
  21. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty much sums up my main concern. We finally have a talented deep team and now they're gonna blow the whole thing up again.

    FML.
     
  22. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    What are you doing is giving excuses to this bunch of millionaires bums, months ago I have been saying that we don't have the team to win anything I say TEAM, because a list of good players and high salaries we have, but from there to have the players to line up a wining team, we don't....
     
  23. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Quote from de Bontin after the game, looks like my gut feeling was right and we'll have a dedicated sporting director by next season. Still doesn't explain the timing of the moves, but this is at least a bit of good news compared to having Hollier pull all the strings from overseas.

    “Keep in mind that [global sports director] Gerard Houllier was hired in the spring, and Gerard came in with the responsibility of reorganizing all of the clubs of Red Bull. Gerard will at some point appoint a sports director to decide what direction to go next year.
     
  24. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    my gut feeling tells me attendance is the reason for all this, not results. empty seats is the reason for change.
     
  25. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well seeing as he is pretty much a replacement for Heck and he will deal with the business side of things, that isn't a stretch at all.
     

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